Starkiller Torpedo/Regular Mines

[pchwang]

I know this is slightly last minute, but starkillers and mines seriously needs some balancing.

Right now, I know very few people who actually use the Starkiller Torpedo, and I would like to present a few problems I've found with it. Before you start saying, "Oh, then don't use it," realize that the only reason I've found a problem is because I've used it. Having useless items in the game is detrimental and takes up space when Igiss puts them in. So long as every gun has some kind of worth so that people can use it, it's worth putting in.

First, here are the Starkiller's stats:

Hull Damage: 3960
Shield Damage: 1980
Speed: 58m/s
Refire Rate: 0.5
Turn rate: 0.6

Here are the Sunslayer's stats:

Hull Damage: 14050
Shield Damage: 7025
Speed: 59m/s
Refire Rate: 0.5
Turn rate: 0.3

Notice that the Starkiller is slightly more "accurate" than the Sunslayer. It has twice the turn rate of its bigger brother. However, if the intention was to make the Starkiller a more maneuverable torpedo, it's failed completely, since it doesn't go fast enough to actually hit anything most of the time. The Sunslayer, however, if it does it, is an insta-kill for most ships, or it will rip off a good deal of equipment and bring down hull a good half as well.

The Starkiller does less damage than the Cannonball missile(Class 9) and slightly more damage than the Sidewinder missile(Class 10).

The Cannonball deals 4890 Hull damage, with a turn rate of 2.90. That is nearly 5 times faster than the Starkiller, the maneuverable torp's speed. The Sidewinder deals around 800 less hull damage, but has a turn rate of 5.00.

The Starkiller at this point is worse than the RM guns. Those can at least deal damage in the hands of a trained individual. The Starkiller does nothing. With new updates coming in the next version, the starkiller is going to be even more useless.

Here is my suggestion:

Increase the Starkiller's turn rate to 1.0, and increase damage dealt to 5940/2970, 1.5 times it's original damage. Increase Starkiller Torp Price to 140k and increase ammo prices to 800 per torpedo.

I believe that this still makes it a balanced weapon worthy of existing in the game.
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Mines

Many people ingame mount mines. Mines are good and fun unless you dive headfirst into one of your own.

95% of all people who mount mines ingame mount Nuclear Mines. As any good Gaian/Member of the Bretonian Green Party will tell you, Nuke Mines are bad for the environment. They are also overused in the game... Horribly overused in my opinion, to the extent that the other mines are virtually unused.

Nuclear Mines have superb blast radius of 64m, a top speed of 80m/s, and deal 10000/5000 damage. One common way people use Nuke mines is to launch, then EK, then turn around and CD them, dealing immense damage to their opponents.

Something else, for instance, like the Screamer mine or the Ripper mine, deal at most less than half the damage a Nuke mine does. The Ripper, the next most powerful, is only available through looting or if you are allied to the Hessians, since it is only sold on Casablanca. The Ripper has (I believe) a blast radius of 16m, a top speed of 60m, and deal 4700/2350.

Why the hell is anyone going to use the Ripper when you can use the Nuke mine?

Fix the other high level mines so that there isn't such a great gap between them and the Nuke mine. Otherwise, they really aren't adding to the mod at this point.

For instance, increase the Ripper's speed, or have it deal more damage. Increase the Screamer's Blast Radius.

Lots of things can be done, but they must be considered first.

Thanks.

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[7:42:05 PM][6:51:36 PM] Igor (Smokey): btw terry
[6:51:48 PM] Terrance Cooper: Ye?
[6:52:00 PM] Igor (Smokey): nothin
[6:52:03 PM] Igor (Smokey): just sayin btw
[6:52:05 PM] Terrance Cooper: <_<

Johnny_Haas: you shot anti criuse speed rockets!!!
Johnny_Haas: but why????
Johnny_Haas: ??
Johnny_Haas: why you shoot criuse speed rockets?

[teschy]

Good point regarding the mines, however, I think the starkiller torpedo's are not so good just because they're so cheap (a.k.a 'torpedoes for the poor')

[AdamantineFist]

Yes. This proposal sounds good. It adds variety to the game, which is always nice.

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[pchwang]

I'd agree with the statement about "Torpedos for the Poor," but I can bring up two points to counter that.

1) Many people who are new to combat feel uncomfortable without a CD. Hell, I still do. As a result, they are going to be reluctant to trade off their CD Slot for something that does less damage than the closest missile they can grab. In addition, most players mentoring these "poor"/new players are going to advise them not to use Torps due to their lack of versatility.

Both points above are both true. But for those who want a fighter for combat only, a torp can often be better.

I'm interested in making the Starkiller excel at what it was intended to do as a Torpedo and reduce the enormous divide between them and Sunslayers at the current moment.

2) One thing that I should have included(and is included now) are new prices for the Starkiller and its ammo. I don't think Torpedos really should be cheap at all. That's why we have missiles, which can perform the same job without taking up the specialized torp/CD slot.

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[7:42:05 PM][6:51:36 PM] Igor (Smokey): btw terry
[6:51:48 PM] Terrance Cooper: Ye?
[6:52:00 PM] Igor (Smokey): nothin
[6:52:03 PM] Igor (Smokey): just sayin btw
[6:52:05 PM] Terrance Cooper: <_<

Johnny_Haas: you shot anti criuse speed rockets!!!
Johnny_Haas: but why????
Johnny_Haas: ??
Johnny_Haas: why you shoot criuse speed rockets?

[teschy]

Better yet, why not leaving the Starkiller as it currently is, and create a new torpedo model according to your stats. Should call it Sunkiller or something:P

[waddoff]

Starkillers are the basic torps, they aren't meant to be good at anything compared with other torps/missiles. If you play Singleplayer, you'll notice you have to be something like rank 10 before you can use Starkillers, and rank 30 to use Sunslayers.

Its kinda like the difference between a Defender and a Guardian.

I agree with you on the mines though, but even if you make the other mines better, people will still use the strongest one available, since mines aren't limited to factions. But perhaps if we could make a variety of top class mines. Fast but weak, another could be slow but huge radius and great tracking, and then strong but cumbersome.

I'd like to see some flare mines too, be neat to set off a flash mine to blind your opponent cover your retreat, or maybe some crybabies, but I doubt that second one is possible.

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[Orin]

All Vanilla torps are terribly underpowered. With armor upgrades, they might take off weapons, but won't be doing any instakills. Although against a Vanilla ship, there's opurtunity for that.

[pchwang]

Well, Orin, Instakills are actually somewhat overpowered for torps.

I'd say that taking off weapons is pretty good.

And Sky Jocky, that is what I said.

Fix the other high level mines so that there isn't such a great gap between them and the Nuke mine. Otherwise, they really aren't adding to the mod at this point.

For instance, increase the Ripper's speed, or have it deal more damage. Increase the Screamer's Blast Radius.

Lots of things can be done, but they must be considered first

---

[7:42:05 PM][6:51:36 PM] Igor (Smokey): btw terry
[6:51:48 PM] Terrance Cooper: Ye?
[6:52:00 PM] Igor (Smokey): nothin
[6:52:03 PM] Igor (Smokey): just sayin btw
[6:52:05 PM] Terrance Cooper: <_<

Johnny_Haas: you shot anti criuse speed rockets!!!
Johnny_Haas: but why????
Johnny_Haas: ??
Johnny_Haas: why you shoot criuse speed rockets?

[farmerman]

The starkiller idea seems fairly logical, but I'm unsure of the numbers one way or another.

As to the mines, there really should be a middle ground or some reason to use the others. Though I think the screamer would be the faster one (it sounds fast). Atleast do something with the blast radius differences I'd say.

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Faction info links: Samura Heavy Industries : LWB : Watchers

[Orin]

True, although they are also double-edged swords if you've used them. You can land a Sunslayer on your target, and say his shields have a sliver left? And your shields are down? They take no hull, you take damage yourself.

The thing is, only bombers can equip Novas and Snovas. VHF torps, Starkillers and Sunnies, are simply outclassed by the Mini Razor and Inferno. I'd love to see the Vanilla torps get a buff, because they're fairly useless right now unless you really know how to use them.

Put short: I agree with you.