@Inferno, @Cataphrak and myself just had a conversation in the shoutbox regarding naval ships and their tendency to do police work (ex. scan for smugglers, fight pirates) when there aren't any Gallians to shoot. That got me thinking - we don't really see a whole lot of explicitly-police ships flying around, and a good bit of the ones that are playing Police are doing it for corrupt cop roleplay.
It seems to me that this is due to the fact that, rules-wise, there's very little differentiation between Navy and Police. Navy are explicitly permitted to patrol for pirates, attempt to interdict smugglers, scan traders for law violations, et cetera. All things that would typically fall under the umbrella of 'police work', such that the navy has basically ousted the police from their own specialty. Thus, there isn't a strong reason to create a Police character as opposed to a Navy character - Navy has more potential targets, bigger ships, comms infrastructure, et cetera. The only real downside is that Navy can't use TLAGSNET, but even then that can be counteracted by camping at known trade nodes, using chokepoints, keeping a list of offenders, et cetera.
I propose that, in the interests of encouraging Police activity, Naval rules of engagement be changed to include something like the following:
Proposal Wrote:* Naval ships may only engage unlawful ships when they are present in a group of three or more, when encountering a Police ship fighting Unlawful ships, or when encountering an Unlawful capital ship.
* Naval ships above the size of Gunship are disallowed from scanning traders and interdicting smugglers.
* Police ships may only engage ships of opposing houses when they are present in a group of three or more, or when encountering a Navy ship fighting House ships.
* Police ships should contact Police ships when they are outnumbered or losing a fight. If there are no Police ships available, a Navy ship may be contacted.
* Police ships are explicitly encouraged to scan traders, interdict smugglers, and patrol for pirates.
This differentiates Naval and Police forces into primarily outward-facing and inward-facing, respectively. That is, the Navy points their guns outwards while the Police secure home space.
Howard Williams - CEO, Williams-Mordhauser Distributing - "Just try and stop us"
Caroline Convair - General Secretary, Williams-Mordhauser Distributing - "Please excuse the CEO"
(07-25-2016, 10:22 AM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: That makes the Navy ID very unattractive.
I guess it would - the problem is that without the house unlawfuls, Navy doesn't really have anybody to shoot unless they're in an active war and their opponents have also logged in. But shouldn't shooting the house unlawfuls be the Police's job? How can we make this work without making one sort or other obsolete?
Howard Williams - CEO, Williams-Mordhauser Distributing - "Just try and stop us"
Caroline Convair - General Secretary, Williams-Mordhauser Distributing - "Please excuse the CEO"
This seems like adding more complication and makes people have to write down a checklist before engaging someone. That, and it doesn't make much sense that a large capital ship with superior technology wont be able to scan a ship when the smallest and most lightly equipt Police fighter can. This also means that a military ship just has to ignore the big scary pirate battleship sitting outside the capital planet. It's just complicating things. The "Military doing the police's job" isn't really a new discussion, and hasn't made any ground since I've been here.
I'd chalk it up to if someone wants to RP a police officer, they'll pick a police officer. If they want to RP a military officer, they'll play a military officer.
But there are enough unlawfuls, in New York and Penny at least, and often in California and Colorado as well and in Texas. There are even Torpedos still apprearing. The navy relies on them, because it's not like we have lots of hostile warships entering Navy ZOI. It's more Unlawfuls in Liberty than Gallics in the combined ZOI of Liberty, Bretonia and Crayter together.
It's not that they shouldn't be allowed to scan people, it's that it's not their job to do so.
Quote:The "Military doing the police's job" isn't really a new discussion, and hasn't made any ground since I've been here.
Yeah, I kinda figured. I remember this being a thing back when I played on Disco PTC all those years back, so if nobody's come up with a good solution by now, well...
Howard Williams - CEO, Williams-Mordhauser Distributing - "Just try and stop us"
Caroline Convair - General Secretary, Williams-Mordhauser Distributing - "Please excuse the CEO"
(07-25-2016, 10:22 AM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: That makes the Navy ID very unattractive.
This. Mainly, it would demotivate people from solo logging, because in houses which are not at war with another house (Rheinland, Kusari), navy players would be completely useless (especially in snubs) when flying alone because they could not engage unlawfuls unless they are at least three, but then - who can win 3+vs1 fight...
Also, we have already quite unrealistic law-enforcement RP due to various rules. It would be really immersion breaking to see law enforcers (navies and intelligence factions) just waiving at ships full of contraband (we already had that when caps were not allowed to engage transports and it was way too weird). Not to mention seeing BPA ignoring GRN ship camping in New London.
Isn't the real problem that both military and police IDs are worse than intelligence agency IDs? I mean, agencies can do police work, navy work in and outside their ZOI.
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