Personally, i welcome the fight, he has yet to survive butt cloaking me and it is rather amusing to deny him that should be easy kill. *Boasting intensifies*
But it is very anti rp and spreads toxicity when i know nearly every other player does not know the best course of action when caught in a butt cloak you can not run from, and the result is the poor target dying most of the time, with few exceptions.
Often a CD'er (a fighter player) is with him able to stop the target from running.
(04-17-2017, 06:00 PM)Crazyr0m Wrote: thanks! but its kinda strange, if I know there is a cloaked enemy nearby, I think I would not stay still and wait for him to buttcloack me... but in the middle of the battles, well...
(04-17-2017, 02:11 PM)Antonio Wrote: No silly, you use razors mainly against gunboats. Gunboats participate in cap fights often, and the only reliable counter to them are razors. Of course they're strictly a defensive weapon. You can't really chase something that's faster than you and decides not to fight you. However, if you start getting shot by a couple of gunboats and even bombers, will you suddenly not use them or what? What kind of logic are you trying to apply here? Remove razors, solarises and any anti-gunboat and less weapon in the game? Because that's what you're saying from the thread. "You shouldn't use anti-smaller classes loadout so they shouldn't exist. How dare you use them!!!" How the hell are you supposed to do -anything- against bombers and gunboats then exactly?
I have a feeling you missed the part where even if you mount razors, you are still very useful against caps with 1 mortar and primaries (in the Dunkirk example). You don't actually lose that much against caps while having great defense against smaller things. It's actually surprising people don't use them more with the mortar meta not requiring more than 2 heavies occupied. Although I guess that'd disappear with old cerbs coming back.
are you saying that there are razors to be mounted on battleships? I know wiki is outdated, maybe that's why I could not find about BS razors, but they do exist? Where can I find some info about that, without going to Virginia (for Liberty BS)? Maybe that's why nobody uses them, people don't know they exist...
(04-17-2017, 02:11 PM)Antonio Wrote: No silly, you use razors mainly against gunboats. Gunboats participate in cap fights often, and the only reliable counter to them are razors. Of course they're strictly a defensive weapon. You can't really chase something that's faster than you and decides not to fight you. However, if you start getting shot by a couple of gunboats and even bombers, will you suddenly not use them or what? What kind of logic are you trying to apply here? Remove razors, solarises and any anti-gunboat and less weapon in the game? Because that's what you're saying from the thread. "You shouldn't use anti-smaller classes loadout so they shouldn't exist. How dare you use them!!!" How the hell are you supposed to do -anything- against bombers and gunboats then exactly?
I have a feeling you missed the part where even if you mount razors, you are still very useful against caps with 1 mortar and primaries (in the Dunkirk example). You don't actually lose that much against caps while having great defense against smaller things. It's actually surprising people don't use them more with the mortar meta not requiring more than 2 heavies occupied. Although I guess that'd disappear with old cerbs coming back.
are you saying that there are razors to be mounted on battleships? I know wiki is outdated, maybe that's why I could not find about BS razors, but they do exist? Where can I find some info about that, without going to Virginia (for Liberty BS)? Maybe that's why nobody uses them, people don't know they exist...
They exist, and are extremely effective against Gunboats, Cruisers and snubs in close range.
(04-17-2017, 10:31 AM)Antonio Wrote: I wouldn't call missiles in current state a nerf. The old ones did hull damage, yes, but also had only 20 ammo, 20 second cooldown and crazy high energy consumption. There was almost no point in using them. Now it's a great way for heavy battleships to deshield light ones quickly and consistently, if the missile doesn't get destroyed on the way. Plus, it messes up the other guy's aim as it's travelling which makes people tilt. Besides, the only reason why they're EMP only is because of vanilla ships and their interaction with missiles. Until those get redone, and it's been mentioned multiple times, bringing back hull damage versions would mess things up more than what they are now.
Really ?
Old "almost no point in using them" BS missiles was good enough for me to do some serious damage to even Valors in my crappy and broken Bretonian Carrier , @ Thundy knows , i fly with him in pair , i missiles , he Cerberus/Mortars , i was one who started using and wining in double set Missiles BS , and miraculously , in first patch after that they are nerfed , if i was paranoid , i would say they are nerfed because it cant be allowed that poor pilots like me beet some "ace" !
Current BS Missiles can de-shield , but thats all , we all know Hull is what mater in BS , Shield is just 5 % or less of Hull strength .
(04-17-2017, 10:31 AM)Antonio Wrote: Flaks got a buff, not a nerf. I don't know where you're getting that info from.
Oh ? Their consumption drop by 30 % , but their power reduced from 9000 damage to 4500 . You fire 2 of them to have"old" 9000 damage and you spend 70 % + 70 % energy , that makes 140 % energy spent , is that a buff ?
(04-17-2017, 10:31 AM)Antonio Wrote: As for your constant "I'm useless against snubs on my cap" whining, I'd bet on my life that in no situation you used an anti-snub loadout. Had you used it, you wouldn't even think of crying about "being useless against snubs". Solaris cruisers or razor battleships are still a huge threat to anything smaller than a cruiser, and are the absolute best way to deal with them. Try it out sometimes, you can't have a loadout that's the best against everything. I can personally tell you I've seen people razor multiple snubs on their battleships (hello Thunderer) as well as dry bombers quickly with solarises or instakill with a mortar.
You loose bet , i have couple of anti snub setups , for example , i present you my LNS-Belgrade , 6 Cruiser Solaris + 3 Cruisers Solaris gatling + 1 BS Solaris on flak slot ( you cant mount better than that on any Cruiser/BC ) , and STILL ,if you surprise him in first shoot , at best you can de-shield sub and give him small hull damage in first time you fire on him , after that pilot will either use fast "shield running" attack and retreat or he will no longer approach you closer than 1000 and he will keep NOVA/snac you from safe distance .
It is not "I'm useless against snubs on my cap" whining , it is FACT that Capitals are broken , and it is FACT that they are nerfed in couple of last patches , and even before that , they dint exactly "shine" against snubs .
Like you see , i dont cry , i counter you with facts in civilized way .
(04-17-2017, 05:11 PM)Thunderer Wrote: Concerning battleships, razors and snubs. Razors are indeed effective, but cerberuses are better. Indeed I have razored a few snubs with some of the shared BAF| Dunkirks, but I have instakilled many more snubs with my Jormugand. That is because it has 3 cerbs, 2 of them on the very back end, perfect for suddenly reversing towards diving snubs and unleashing the surprise of green death. So if you need to kill snubs, mount cerbs on your backwards firing slots. Also mount them if you wish to kill everything else, in case that their range is increased. Who needs razors/mortars/missiles when you have 3.5K cerbs?
(04-17-2017, 11:52 AM)Chills Wrote: To thunderes statement he feels safest in a valor. I haven't seen you flying the Tonnant for ages, only the other players which the Tonnant is shared with. But I don't really wonder you like the actual cap combat. It favors your beloved Dunkirks.
I do fly the Tonnant a bit less, true. I got bored. There isn't any challenge, just advance forward like Alexander's phalanx and look at your foes writhe in pain and death. Unless I'm fighting one of my students. But it isn't particularly interesting to fight your own students either, since you already know exactly what they will do.
The current status suits Dunkirks, though, yes. More than the previous one at least. I am not terribly fond of being damaged by a huge weapon that doesn't even hit me on my screen. At least that is out of the equation if you can stay far enough. The FG is actually the only thing of the Valor's that has been changed, besides its armour having received a buff.
(04-17-2017, 11:52 AM)Chills Wrote: I was not able to damage the dunkirks (not that I would've been with old cerbs either) and played the bait so that the 2 battlecruiser could pick the dunkirks one by one effortlessly. It was a boring battle and the result was predictable.
Would have been more interesting if the Dunkirks listened to the orders
(04-17-2017, 02:43 PM)Titan* Wrote: 5-6 fighter enough to kill legate in 5-6 min
That is actually close to true. Certainly not in 6 minutes, but they would finish it in about 20 and with no losses. That is because the Legate is large enough for most of its turrets to be placed so far from the centre that the aim calculation error is great enough to cause serious inaccuracy.
I wonder why Cerbs are better against snubs. Because higher refire rate? Actually both are not very effective against snubs, battleships don't have anything that is. Although Razors are better against Gunboats than cerbs. But in this case you can have it even easier and fire 2 timed heavy mortars/trebuchets at the gunboat with even better results, because there is no way a gb has enough hitpoints to actually alive a heavy mortar, very different to a Razor. Also you wont simply kill a snub by reserving and shooting all heavy weapons. Only unexperienced people die to this.
The last time a real Valor phalanx stood against a Bretonian fleet was when the old cerbs were there. Since then valor players either cruise up, buttcloak, don't even show up and let their BC's handle eveything, or do something like a 'valor wall' when they have more numbers and don't need to care about a loss or another. Because now they will lose in any other case. Everyone who took an eye on the trend of cap ship battles will notice this. The huge break-in in cap ship battles increases and cannot come alone from "Because ppl leave disco for rl reasons".
Thunderer, you know that I fought the GRN invaders in Leeds and Magellan since I was a newb with a Liberty dread until I've become a skillfull capplayer. The GRN these times had a lot of skilled players in both snubs and caps and I died very often, but still had my fun. The main reason why the GRN won such many fights was their amount of skilled players and not the 'mighty Valor' alone.
I also wonder what you mean by the actual status of the dunkirk. 'Being able to beat up valors at any time and huge range but unfortunately being taken apart by BCs now? Dieng to Valors which only cruise up or buttcloak now because they are useless on high range even with long range setup? By the way, 'I am not terribly fond of being damaged by a huge weapon that doesn't even hit me on my screen.' Sounds like me being hit by your kirks Mortars. But be happy, this problem doesn't only count for the cerbs. This includes all Weapons. If I knew every mortar I see someone shooting at me would fly the way I see it on my screen, I would probably never be hit by them because I simply dodge them all.
To the other part where you're claiming Legate can't kill snubs because guns are too far from center. You should know, it would make no difference. If the snub flies in curves, you wont hit. No matter what, no matter where the guns are placed. WASD straving is completly sufficient unless the cap is firing with guns that have high dispersion. But Solarises don't deal enough damage and you can turn away before your shield is down. Flying in a circle is completely sufficient. Because the old freelancer's aiming system is too broken and can only compute the speed forward, not the additional circling. I've seen this so many times and took it to my advantage in cap combat.
Quote:I wonder why Cerbs are better against snubs. Because higher refire rate?
He means that he uses Cerberus either by chain fire them one by one , or exactly came way like you use double 1-2 Razor . BS Cerberus has enough Power to snipe snubs , first hit de-shield and second hit ( split second after first hit ) insta-kill snub .
It is only possibility to surprise kill snub , couse if you try to use secondary/solaris , it will just shield run , and at best you can drain its bits a little .
Quote:I wonder why Cerbs are better against snubs. Because higher refire rate?
He means that he uses Cerberus either by chain fire them one by one , or exactly came way like you use double 1-2 Razor . BS Cerberus has enough Power to snipe snubs , first hit de-shield and second hit ( split second after first hit ) insta-kill snub .
It is only possibility to surprise kill snub , course if you try to use secondary/solaris , it will just shield run , and at best you can drain its bits a little .
If you'd use them this way, razors would be better than Cerberus because of higher projectile speed.
Yes , but then you have to have 2 Razors on heavy slots , which can be troublesome against other ship classes , especially on Capitals with only 2 heavy slots .
Besides , you have only one chance for insta-kill attempt because of high power consumption and slow rate of fire , with Cerberus you can also chain fire and go for couple of kills trys in a row .
I like what An'shur the pink nomnom brought up with the naval guns. Maybe the Cerberus cannons should be reworked to ammo-based Battleship Cannonballs.
As for the fixing the cerbs without changing them to something else entirely, I haven't been flying battleships as of late, but I have seen many loadouts change because of the change to the Cerberus turret, as well as a decrease in BS sightings. Instead I see more BCs and HM-spam BS... if I see battleships at all that day.
I'd move that two things happen: Cerbs are mediated to a point of original stats and current stats (to satisfy people's needs to Cerb things while keeping them balanced and a decent long range weapon) and a new 'pseudo-Cerb' made that operates as a large, ammo-based cannon, somewhat similar to a Mortar and HM but without the spam of mortars.
Also yes, cerbs are great for snubs. They 2-hit and are more efficient than Razors... plus you can use them against the Battleship you just forgot about to shoot that snub.