Good morning community, some of you may know me, some of you have never heard of me before, but I'm a guy that helps defend, supply and works hard on PoB's and have done since the moment they were implemented in the mod. Being a victim of my own PoB being destroyed here and before that several others including Reutlingen Storage Facility, Solitaire Metropolis and more. Alot of people who have been on the defending side discusses the rules that have been put in place. There have been countless threads before that had alot of interest but nothing was done to help the defending side in anyway.
So what I want to talk about is just the PoB rules and attack declaration, as I am no Dev, I'm not sure what I could suggest to help both sides like before someone suggested both sides have a PoB that needs to be destroyed and so on. Now let me start and breaking down each thread and discuss it.
Locations
- POB's built in House space, as listed below, are subject to House laws and fees.
- POB's built in non-House space that are bordering a House system, as listed below, are not allowed to be engaged for lack of payment, should one be issued.
This to me seems so far fair, but why should an Outcast PoB not be sieged for lack of payment from the Corsairs for example? The Corsairs are at war with the Outcasts so therefore they should be allowed to demand a large sum from the Outcast's in return of the PoB staying alive.
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Core One
- Players are not required to role play prior to building a Core 1 base, but any building or any attack must make inRP sense.
- Players are required to post a notice in the Attack Declaration thread, 8 hours prior to attacking a Core 1 base.
- Name, location and IFF of bases are permanent
A Core One base is nothing special, alot of people have been there and done that, it takes roughly 45 minutes to get every commodity required to build a PoB, that is after going to purchase the ship and flying around Bretonia, Kusari, Rheinland to get all necessary commodities to build the base and then you need to find a location to build the PoB so roughly it takes 1 hour to complete. From there you are then in need of emergency commodities. Food, Water, Oxygen, Reinforced Alloy and Crew. This all takes time to complete, once you have done that congratulations you have a Core 1 base that has a Name, Location and IFF and enough commodities to last a short period of time. Now you need to build and construct Core 2 which takes more time but for all you know your base could be sieged 8/9 hours after it is been built, it all depends on when it is found. A Core 1 base should not be siegeable full stop, or if it is to be siegeable then it should be after 24 hours. There is no way a Core 1 base can survive.
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Core Two
- Players are required to post the name, IFF, system and purpose of their base in this subforum prior to becoming Core 2. These posts remain invisible and are only accessible by the server staff.
- Upon posting their existence, base owners will receive, from the admins, a set of 'blueprints' which is required for their upgrade. Blueprints are non transferable and will be absorbed in the upgrade of the base.
- Before a player/faction attacks a Core 2 base (or higher), they must role play either in game or on the forums and provide the link to this RP in the Attack Declaration thread.
- Any attack declaration for a base Core 2 or above must be 24 hours in advance of the attack starting.
. - Bases located within 15k of mining fields will not be permitted to advance beyond Core 2.
Core Two PoB's are the begining of the end of PoB's, at Core Two you have just put hours of trading into the base just to reach this position, you have now posted a new thread on the forums with a Name, IFF, System, Purpose of the base to be given the blueprints to have your base approved to Core Two. This could take months all depends on the admin work load. During this time though the enemy/unlawful side could find this base and siege it before Core 2 blueprints can be provided due to the work load.
The 3rd point down it says before a player/faction attacks a Core 2 base or higher, they must ROLEPLAY ingame or via the forums then provide links to prove there was RP in the Attack Declaration Thread. So with this in mind, the only roleplay that is required is for a patrol/player to go to the said location take a screenshot with /time and /pos and then write up a message dump for the leadership of the faction to send a comm to that pob and give them a time frame to pay a large fine which could be anything between 10 million to 1 billion or more or the base will be destroyed after 24 or 48 hours or something. When ever the attacking side choices (stress free).
This is no way near balanced or fair due to the attacking side has to do next to nothing to be able to make alot of money or to ruin someones day just "Because I can" attitude. It then starts to say any attack declaration for a Core 2 base or above must be given 24 hours in advanced before attack starts. This is an attack on the PoB it self, but what about if the attacking side camps the jumpholes, jump gates to said pob not allowing them to supply the base prior to an attack. There was a discussion before with Minerva Research Station in Coronado where NC- and Aoi and other factions camped jump holes to not allow IMG, CR transporters to supply the base and was informed not to do it. This needs to be made aware in the server rules. That time should be given to the players supplying the base making them some how attempt to defend there PoB against a over whelming force.
It then says bases located within 15k of a mining field will not be permitted to advanced beyond Core 2. Okay fair enough, this is a good rule purely because a Core 4 or Core 5 PoB inside a mining field could mount alot of weapon platforms and have enough cargo storage to store ore easier for silent traders and harder for pirates to be able to do any form of roleplay. This was seen with Reutligen Storage Facility in Omega 7.
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Core Three
- If player/faction wish to upgrade to Core 3, they must file for a request in this subforum. In the request, they must provide more detailed role play and have demonstrated responsible behavior for at least one month as a Core 2.
- Once approved, base owner will receive, from the admins, another set of 'blueprints' to upgrade their base. Again, these blueprints are non transferable and any abuse will result in loss of base.
To upgrade to Core three, you must have done MORE roleplay and demonstrated responsibile behaviour for atleast one month as a Core too before being approved and given blue prints to upgrade to Core three. But the same rules apply for attacks, 24 hours and 1 MD and 1 Comms to the PoB owner. Some how there is no balance here at all.
This is a roleplay server and if a PoB has to provide over 10 - 15 threads to different factions/players who interacted with the PoB why should it be allowed that the unlawful side can fly to said pob /time and /pos screenshot then write a message dump that says something like.
"Sir I have found a base in this location, it is not authorized to be here, we need to dispose of it fast."
and then the Admin sends a comm to the pob owner saying something like this;
"Sir I am Admiral No Name, you have 24 hours to move your crew off or pay 500,000,000 to Admiral's.Bank or your little base will be destroyed."
Then they write a attack declaration that does NOT need admin approval before they can attack, they just need to notifiy the admin team there will be a siege nothing more.
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Core Four
- Players/Factions that have proven responsible and productive role playing members of the community for at least two months as Core 3, may request to have their bases upgraded to Core 4.
- Once approved, base owner will receive, from the admins, another set of 'blueprints' to upgrade their base. Again, these blueprints are non transferable and any abuse will result in loss of base.
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As you can see things for Core Four bases are very similar to Core Three, a PoB owner must prove that they are responsible and a productive member of this community for atleast two months as a Core 3 base before they have request blueprints (From admins) to be upgraded to Core 4. This is all nice and all but what about the defending side? Same rules apply.
Same rules apply for the unlawful side, all they need to do is do what I said about and it can be a siege within 48 hours or building a Core 3 base. There is no balance what so ever.
Now let's go to Core Five.
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Core Five
- Official factions that have proven responsible and productive role playing members of the community for at least three months as Core 4, may request to have their bases upgraded to Core 5.
- Once approved, base owner will receive, from the admins, another set of 'blueprints' to upgrade their base. Again, these blueprints are non transferable and any abuse will result in loss of base.
- With the upgrade to Core 5, wear & tear damage on the base will be disabled, and owners can further request the removal of FOW consumptions through a special roleplay request.
- Only one Core 5 base per official faction is permitted.
As you can see as a Core Five base you get a little extra piece of -goodies- of with a Upgrade to Core 5 the wear & tear damage on the base will be disabled and can then request FOW comsumptions through a "Special Roleplay Request".
But same again for the unlawful side, a little 10 minute patrol in game to find said pob can then write a 3 minute message dump for the leadership of said faction to send a comm to that player base requesting 500m or the crew to be removed off the base in 24 hours or it will be destroyed. This is after the PoB owner has put three months work into a Core 4 base and 15 or more threads to different players/factions to prove they are responsibile and proven to be a productive roleplay member of this community. While the unlawful side has to prove they found the base, wrote a MD to the faction leader for the faction leader to send a comm saying yes pay me big moneys or your base will be destroyed. Which all can happen in 1 hour.
That is literally the Server Rules for Player Own Bases and what it takes for a player to own and build a PoB. but it does not say how long it will take them, that is a whole different thread. That is all located here (Kudos to the guys who made the Player Base Guide, very useful tool).
Now let's move over to thePlayer Owned Bases Attack Thread Declaration . In here you will find only a small piece of information and a template to inform everyone there is an attack on a PoB that the owner has worked 4 months non stop, every single day to keep alive.
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This is a dedicated thread for people/factions to state their intent to attack POB's.
In order to attack a POB, a player/faction must have RP on the forums prior to attack as stated in Rule 3.5
Quote:
3.5 Roleplay is required before attacking or destroying a player owned base. The roleplay regarding this must be properly documented on forums, with the link(s) posted in this thread and should match the roleplay and conduct of the characters involved based on the faction they belong to.
However, it is difficult for the owners of POB's to find those threads on the forums, and it's ridiculous to expect a player to have to search the entire forum everyday to make sure no statement of intent to attack has been issued.
Therefore, this thread is created in order to centralize all communications regarding attacking POB's.
What to do:
Player/Faction must provide RP on the forums stating in some fashion their intent to attack a particular POB. This can be done in any RP section of the forum, Message Dump, Communications Channel, etc.
Player/Faction must follow the template below and post in this thread his intent to attack. This must be done prior to attacking.
The template includes:
1. Name of player/faction attacking.
2. The name of POB to be attacked.
3. The link to the roleplay thread stating their intent to attack.
A template is provided to standardize things and make it easier to read. Please follow it.
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Name of player(s)/faction(s): [color=#32CD32][b]Name[/b][/color]
Name of Player Owned Base: [color=#32CD32][b]Name[/b][/color]
Link to RP showing intent to attack: <Link>
Please note an Attack Declaration is valid for 2 weeks after posting.
As you can see in this thread, it shows you what is just above, now let me break it down for you all.
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This is a dedicated thread for people/factions to state their intent to attack POB's.
In order to attack a POB, a player/faction must have RP on the forums prior to attack as stated in Rule 3.5
Quote:
3.5 Roleplay is required before attacking or destroying a player owned base. The roleplay regarding this must be properly documented on forums, with the link(s) posted in this thread and should match the roleplay and conduct of the characters involved based on the faction they belong to.
So as you can see there is only ONE rule that will protect you, which is in order to attack a PoB a player/faction must have RP'd on the forums before the attack. So like i've just been saying all it takes is a five minute patrol in game a couple of screen shots, then a message dump for the faction leader to demand large mass's of money or destroy the base posting these links in the attacking declaration thread. Then they have protected there self from 3.5.
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However, it is difficult for the owners of POB's to find those threads on the forums, and it's ridiculous to expect a player to have to search the entire forum everyday to make sure no statement of intent to attack has been issued.
As you can see here, I agree with this point, a PoB owner should not have to search through thousands of threads to just find 3 days later that there base is being sieged because they missed a piracy demand via forums. So what this Attack Declaration Thread provies is, it provides that player all the information to there base to be destroyed in one thread saving them some time before there base is destroyed.
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Therefore, this thread is created in order to centralize all communications regarding attacking POB's.
What to do:
Player/Faction must provide RP on the forums stating in some fashion their intent to attack a particular POB. This can be done in any RP section of the forum, Message Dump, Communications Channel, etc.
Player/Faction must follow the template below and post in this thread his intent to attack. This must be done prior to attacking.
So this is just a little bit of "What you need to do" to siege a base and making it known for a large sum of community members. This informs the players willing to attack the base what they require to siege a base. So from what that is saying all it needs to say is "Their intent to attack the particular PoB" and from there all they need to do is post in Attack Declaration Thread and wait 24 hours before attacking. That is all that is required from the unlawful side.
It then says please follow the template below, let's take a look at this.
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The template includes:
1. Name of player/faction attacking.
2. The name of POB to be attacked.
3. The link to the roleplay thread stating their intent to attack.
A template is provided to standardize things and make it easier to read. Please follow it.
Very short as sweet, so it says Name of player/faction attacking, so this clearly means put the faction tags, players or ID's here of who you wish to attack the PoB even if it don't make sense inRP for example it could be Mollys, Gaian Guards, Corsairs, SCRA attacking a BAF PoB in New London. Because they have made the admins aware it is happening but don't need approval just like the PoB owner requires approval with several roleplay links before recieving a blueprint for the next core.
It then says "The name of the POB to be attacked" so this is easy enough, the PoB you have done masses of roleplay with of (2 posts that took 10 minutes to write), you write that name here.
Then it says "The link to the roleplay thread stating their intent to attack" oh so this is the link where I said "pay me 500m or remove the crew of your base so I can destroy it." right got it, makes sense now.
Then at the bottom it says
"Please note an Attack Declaration is valid for 2 weeks after posting."
2 weeks after they declared the attack, so within 2 weeks the unlawful side can attack and siege a PoB with broken/bugged mechanic's for 336 hours, 14 days. 2 weeks. Aslong as the unlawful side don't die during their first attempt, they can go back for their 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th or even more just because they have 336 hours to do so. While the PoB owner is said there stressing out, getting very frustrated and annoyed because their is no rules to protect him from what is happening and things are very unbalanced for that player who has worked hard for 4 months to reach the point he is at just to watch his base be destroyed.
And then let's say a PoB has built alot of weapon platforms to defend a base. It is all nice and all because weapon platforms on PoB's are dangerous, but no matter how many you have, the side that is shooting the base can and will shoot the weapon platforms, there is a known bug which has been abused in the past in every siege that I have been apart of and witnessed of shooting the weapon platforms until they stop shooting at anyone, at this point the weapon platform is useless because it's not doing it's job and the unlawful side can now just sit back and watch while the 6 weapon platforms are there but not shooting because they are being bugged and exploited. Yes there is a chance the defending side or PoB owner could file a sanction report for abusing these bugs and exploiting them but that is very difficult to do if you are pvp dead in that system.
I believe that the admins should rethink the strategy and server rules regarding PoB's all the attacking side need to do is 10 minute to 1 hour worth of roleplay and wait 24 hours after writing a notification. While the PoB own has to work hard for 4 months to get to Core 3/4 and have to wait on admin approval several times before they can proceed. Not only that but they have to supply the PoB with FWO and Reinforced Alloy as well as shield fuel.
As you can see here -
Cheating and Exploits - Modifying your Discovery Freelancer installation or using third-party tools in order to gain advantage over other players is strictly forbidden and will result in deletion of ingame assets or/and a ban. This also includes specific cases such as:
It does not say anything about abusing bugs that are ingame mechanic's it just says Cheating and Exploits such as - Modifying your Discovery Freelancer installation or using third-party tools in order to gian advantage over other players. So basically if a player finds a bug ingame they are allowed to exploit that bug because this rule does not say otherwise.
Then it takes us to this
-- Administrators are obliged:
To develop and safeguard the health of the Discovery Freelancer community, official server, and forums.
To be fair and treat all players equally, independent of their level and faction alignment.
Not to mix server roleplaying with server administration in any way.
Not to ignore any cases of server rules violations that are reported.
It is the admins duty to develop and safeguard the health of the Discovery Freelancer community, server and forums this is to make the game enjoyable for all.
It also then says to be fair and treat all palyers "Equally" so from my understanding this is not happening with the currently PoB rules? The defending side have alot more rules to oblige by while the attackers have to write a few words in three threads before attacking.
So I would like for the community to discuss the current rules for the Player Owned Bases on both sides, attacking and defending and find a way to make things more balanced as it is the Admins duty to obliged the rules they have which is to Develop and safeguard the health of Discovery Freelancer Community. We have seen many many players leave because of the PoB rules and the way their bases have been destroyed after they have worked hard in building them and roleplaying them.
(10-06-2017, 12:38 PM)Thunderer Wrote: I am not sure that your thread will be read. I think that you should shorten it to at most 20% of what it is now. Alternatively, paste it here.
Lol why even post this? People complain all the time that a thread is too short of it is too long. You won't please everyone. If people want to read then they will read
Sounds a bit biased with all the emphasis on details supporting your agenda while leaving out other details of the full picture. I saw no mention of PoB capabilities in return for maintenance, perks and toys coming with owning a PoB, hull, shield and repair rate balance and how much DPS is required to take a base down as a result, etc.
Last significant massacre of PoBs en masse I can recall were by the Bass Hunters, how frequent were sieges ever since then, how many did succeed? How many Battleships - because you sure can't do crap with anything smaller - are required to take down a PoB per Core level? Who else besides Wesker can amass such a force?
Also let's just not forget that this is still a feature intended as a group project even though you can kinda pull a base up to Core 2 on your own relatively quickly. To be frank the whole is quite balanced to force sieges to be a group effort as well.
Lastly, even though the current wording may suggest such, I'm pretty sure you are wrong at interpreting the anti-exploit rule the way you did, and that admins punish ingame exploits beside other mentioned things too.
8.1 Factions can only siege PoB if they own a PoB of the same rank or higher
8.2 If faction A declares an attack on Faction B's PoB Faction B gains right to attack Faction A's PoB
8.1 Factions can only siege PoB if they own a PoB of the same rank or higher
8.2 If faction A declares an attack on Faction B's PoB Faction B gains right to attack Faction A's PoB
Nooo, just to make thing fairs, the moment the attackers attack a PoB after making their declaration the declaration to be made void and it was a failed attempt. To attack again they have to do even more RP and not the same "Admiral found a base here let's go kill it". "Well done Lieutenant let's." and "Base owner pay 500m to us now or remove your crew for base destruction" it is just stupidly silly and there is no way the admins are safe guarding the health of community members with this rule structure and balance of allowing the attackers 2 full weeks off attacking even if they fail to destroy the base after 3 times, they can just keep coming back up to 14 days.
Indeed, I could only get 6 people around for a PoB attack and we were hoping to do some hull damage as some sort of "proof" we could hurt the base and then demand payment, hours of 6 cap ships hammering away at a Core 4 with shields on, no damage at all.
I don't think that bases are underpowered, I think that Wesker is OP XD
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