Why I don't like Faction Tags

[onca]

I have started this thread because: (1) I'm disturbed about the latest poll to increase the cost of faction tags to way beyond ridiculous levels; (2) I'm worried about faction tags in general.

I believe the poll came about partly because of the latest "Outcast Clique" thread. In that, some players, me one of them, were denied participation because we had not bought have faction tags. Even though we (I at least) had the correct faction ID and rep to go with it, and generally make an effort to engage in RP for all our chars. I think the words were "Either pay your $15m or do not post here..."

One problem is that the concept of faction tags is misunderstood by most people, me included. They are confused with faction ID's, and they're not explained very well anywhere. I always thought faction tags were a throw-back to pre-4.80 days and were made redundant by ID's, but I was wrong.

Now I have been enlightened.... the purpose of tags is to show the world that you're serious about RP'ing. The tags are completely optional, but if you want to be taken seriously you must have one. The price is made so high so that only people who are "really serious" will buy one, and keep out those who aren't.

Personally I resent being told I'm not serious about RP because I haven't "paid up". You might ask, "why not just pay the money and get a tag?". My anwser is, "Why should I?" I've been with Discovery for a few months now, and I've spent countless hours both in the forums and in-game developing RP chars. I would hope I've proven to you all I'm about RP and earned some kind of respect. So why should I have to spend a weekend inside a boring bloody train, just to be considered a member of the "club"?

You want RP? Ok then. How did you raise the money for that faction tag? You ran a trader. Now how many of your traders do anything but the NY/FP11 or Cambridge/Kurile money runs? I've only seen one person (Dab I think) say he does a different trade run than these, "purely for RP". So every other trader is non-RP, whether you carry a faction tag or not.

On the flip side, my pirate char is not associated with a trader. (I scummed money from my neutral trader initially, for the necessary funds to buy a gunboat, of which I'm ashamed.) After killing countless nomads and running anti-BHG missions, last count I've only got $3m in the bank. How am I supposed to raise the cash for a $50m faction tag? You guessed it.... invent a completely superfluous trader and spend days doing the money runs.

You know what, this latest round with the "Outcast clique" really bothers me. It's not just the necessity of raising money for a tag... It's that this will be the first of many "membership only" activities which will happen on this server. (Oh by the way, does this mean the "Outcast clique" only engages in PvP with chars with faction tags as well? Or will they go after anybody.)

Anyway I'm sorry for the rant but I'm just bloody annoyed at the whole notion. I think your RP standing should be judged on your merits, in the forums and in game, not on how long your arse has sat in a large train. Maybe I should give Disco a rest for a while until its all worked out... oh well on the brighter side, I haven't been this p***d about anything for a long time. Must mean I care about Disco.

o.

[Fellow Hoodlum]

Onca ... You are one of the people that does actually understand and RP ... Sorry if its
come over as cliquey, wouldn't have been my choice of thread title, I assure you ...
Its just the complete lack of alot of the new members willingness to read, or be bothered
to read what this server is all about.
In fact I would be quite happy if no one else bothered to do it at all. Because there is
going to be a rush for everyone to tag now without thinking why they want to do it ...
As Angel has stated elsewhere, this tagging is for RP purposes only ... Not to look cool
My fighter in the [GoR] payed for its own tag over a period of time, and my trader,
which gets RPed too, whatever run I'm doing, had nothing to do with it ...
I wish a few more people thought like you, The only reason these factions work, or don't,
is the people involved with them ... Not the factions themselves. You can have the best
ideas in the world for a faction, but if the people involved are not prepared to put the
effort in, they will not work, as I think you are already finding out.
It was our choice to get the tags for this, infact most of us have had them for quite a while
now, and we were actually working towards doing this anyway.
What I don't want to see is everyone doing it because it can be done, and for no other reason
than that. Especially with the Outcasts now ... Who up till recently, most people had no
interest in whatsoever.
I'll state again ... The factions work because of the people, not the factions themselves.
Its wrong to think if you have a popular faction that works, it will continue to work if
its opened up to everyone.
Sorry if we came over as cliquey, never my intention ... Just five very like minded people
with a serious interest in the Outcast story and a willingness to take it alot further.
The only disapponting thing is the lack of people who come up red in my hud ... Unless
they are NPCs ... Special mention for Lancer here, who's SF trader is an enemy of all
my active chars, and only the second red PC I've seen in eight months of playing here.
Thats a lack of RP ... If I played security chars I would tag them too ...
Sorry its a bit of a ramble, very early, or late here, depending on your perspective.
Look forward to reading everyone elses comments ... Coffee now, again.

Hoodlum

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Some say he is a proud member of: "The most paranoid group of people in the Community."

[DarkOddity]

I agree with Onca here... I go in to see if my tag request has been approved or denied... And to my amazement what would have been 30 Million is now going to cost me over 100 Million... Apparently it doesn't matter that all the characters belong to *me*... This makes me want to *SLAP THE LIVING HELL OUT OF SOMEONE* I've been *TRYING* and TRYING and trying and trying and trying and trying and trying and trying and trying to find a way to get my Corsairs tagged in-game without doing this stupid pay thing... and when I finally decide to do it... WHOOP! Price raised!


And I agree with Onca, this is definately (in my opinion) a move to preserve the "Outcast Clique"

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[Fellow Hoodlum]

Oddity .. you really are turning into one large prat around the place ... The bloody tags
have always been 15 million, and if you could STFU long enough to ask someone who
knows, like Angel perhaps, you would find out that this has always been the case.
Give it a 'kin rest please ... The chip on your shoulder could weatherboard my whole
house.

Hoodlum

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Some say he is a proud member of: "The most paranoid group of people in the Community."

[The Pirate]

Oddity i think its yoou who DIDNT read the price Angel posted it Clearly states 15 MILLION so why the hell are you complaining also you could just Give one char at a Time the Tag take it easy man the server aint running no where and niehter are your Chars






Pirate

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[Nightfall]

@DO: STFU already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The price ain't raised, it was 15mil from the start! I payed for my tags all of them (11 or 12).

@onca: Mate, sorry to hear that you feel this way. As Hood said, we in 'the Outcast Clique' ([GoR]) have the tags for quite some time. Teaboy and Badger have Blood Dragon tags for some time too. Most of my [IND] chars have the Interspace Commerce tags (I'll pay for the rest of them too). As a matter of fact, I have only a few untagged chars - note tag, not ID - and I plan to tag them too.
The problem why the tag price proposal is the one Hoodlum mentioned - people who just come and annoy with no respect or interrest whatsoever in RP.

I'll quote:

person: 'What's up in Alpha, are you having a great pirate gathering?'
I'm ignoring the person as I'm in the middle of a FIREFIGHT
person: asks some stupid random question
I'm ignoring the person as I'm in the middle of a FIREFIGHT
person: asks some stupid random question
me: 'Busy, fighting'
person: asks some stupid random question
I'm ignoring the person as I'm in the middle of a FIREFIGHT
person: asks some stupid random question
person: 'What's up in Alpha, are you having a great pirate gathering? Who you attacking?'
person: asks some stupid random question
me: 'Busy, can't talk. Sorry!' - and loose half my hull to the BH Hammerheads
person: 'Ah, I see, you're pi$$ed at me!'
I'm still ignoring and fighting the BHs...
...
and so on...

... until (being ignored and not told what we were doing) he decides to show up with a char that is terrorist nametag (no sense in saying the name) that has a Xeno ID and lands at Malta and buys Outcasts ID!!!
We were RPing and attacked the Xeno as he was talking in SYSTEM CHAT deliberately annoying all of us. Otherwise he might even passed by unseen. We do to his bidding and kill him numerous times then he asks why don't we want to play with him? What to play? I think that WAS us PLAYING with him FL!!! We're not playing Solitaire last time I checked!!!
in the middle of all that, psycho_killer (carrying a Corsair ID attacks us in a Raven then runs off to dock at Malta and buys an Outcast ID), lags the hell of the server (lag appeared when he came) and went away when he finally left so was the same for 003.

This is only that night... things like this happen often.

The problem is lack of RP and lack of understanding the RP. I for one, come to Disco to enjoy the RP and I think there are some others who do the same.


Thank you for reading,
Bernard.


EDIT: This is, of course my personal opinnion, so, flame me not the others for anything typed in here. I stand behind my words.

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If the stars should appear one night in a thousand years, how would men believe and adore and preserve for many generations the remembrance of the city of God? - from 'Nightfall' by I. Asimov
The Outcasts consider Siniestre Nube a sacred place for several reasons. Early explorers discovered a jumphole within the depths of the cloud that leads to a strange world of ringed stars and strange craft. All ships in the burrial ground are placed facing that hole to honor the Alien Spirits. - An Outcast rumor

[Teaboy]

Onca, the Outcast Clique message dump is a fancy way of saying [GoR] message dump. We didnt have a tag at the time, and I couldnt just say Outcast message dump because then any tom dick and harry would be posting there.

Its no more selective than the phantom messaged dump, the SF dump or any other dump infact. Maybe it should be retitled the Outcast [GoR] message dump.

As for preserving the "outcast clique".... to a degree yes, if current trends continue in about a month every single character on the server is going to have an outcast ID and tag, so, whose going to kill anyone? we are allgoing to be allied and its bloody annoying. Maybe a different approach should be taken, somehow we have to get people to start taking a different ID and tag, is good that a corsair faction has been started i think thats excellent. But it still doesnt tackle the fact that we now have several (stupid, non rp base) characters flying around with outcast tags and IDs purely because they have seen us with them and want to be a part of it without putting in any effort. I have no doubt that when people stop using outcast IDs, they'll probably use Xeno ID's purely so they can gain immunity from the Phantoms (please check out the NG).

Sorry if it comes across arogant and bitchy, but what can i say, i can't help how i was born.... least im honest ;)

[General Nakazawa]

well hood, im never going to get an outcast id or tag. I have Hacker ids and blood dragon ids and tags but ive had those sence i started my clan. I think the tags are grait for distinguishing between factions, i havent been on the server in a wile so i dont know about what all of you are talking about but i hope you guys trust me to RP

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[marauder]

Now see thats the whole point guys.

The people who have been here for awhile and have bothered to do RP characters, background stories for them etc, are not the problem.

It's the new players who just want to be 'cool' and get IDs and tags because those are the ones they see flying around the most.

I'm starting to lose count of the number of pirate players I've seen flying around before we had IDs, who never came anywhere near phantom characters, who now do because they have xeno IDs and think that it's safer then using a different pirate ID.

As this mod is used by alot of other servers now we can't go ask igiss for a phantom empire ID, we're gonna have to continue using the xeno one.

[Dab]

I agree completely with Onca. The reason NONE of my characters have any tags is because I spend all my trading time RP-trading where I gain very little money for transporting Deuterium for the Zoners. I'm making very little cash RPing that I cannot, in your terms, RP. So now people have to resort to NY-FP11 routes just to be able to buy their RPing tags and ships, as doing ANY RP in their trader will make it impossible. I have to buy IDs for almost all of my ships still, and thats going to take forever becauseI'm RP-trading, but I'm gonna do it anyway. But this means that I will not be able to get faction tags until the next version offers a trade route I can do with my RP. Yet if I asked to join this Outcast "clique" they would say, "No, get a tag and RP for it." Thats about the time I would get pissed at them, as I had RPd for every scrap of money I had gotten. So I had RPd more than even they had to get where I was, but they would still say I wasn't RPing enough to get in. I think Faction tags should not cost over 10 million credits, and I've always thought that. Its simply too much money if your going to get them for all your characters. I had 13 characters, I would like to be able to get IDs AND Tags on them in decent time, but even with the NY-FP11 route it would take forever. 315 million for 13 characters. 315. I don't have that kind of money, nor the means or time to get it. The small amount of time each week I get to play on the server I'd like to spend PLAYING on the server, not getting on for a month doing non-stop trading.

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