Since my return to disco, I've been hopping around between ship classes trying to find a good fit, especially with all of the changes over the past years to balance and ship capabilities. In these past few weeks I've been focusing almost entirely on cruisers, and have committed myself to at least attempting to master them as my primary/preferred ship class. I'd like to hear from other cruiser-centric players, or those who are known to do well in them, and see what your preferred weapon loadouts and tactics are. Also, if anyone is up for training in conn, I'm always in need of practice.
At the moment, I have three cruisers, one of each sub-type to try and get a good grasp of how the entire ship class works with different loadouts, enemies, situations, etc:
"Siris" Nomad Cruiser (Heavy Cruiser, 4 heavy turrets, 8 light turrets, 2.25m core)
"Resheph" Order Recon Cruiser (Medium Cruiser, 3 heavy turrets, 9 light turrets, 1.8m core)
"Thresher" Core Destroyer (Light Cruiser, 2 heavy turrets, 6 light turrets, 1.4m core)
So far, surprisingly, I've had the most success using the Resheph/medium cruiser. I'm running 1 light mortar, 2 pulse turrets, 2 cerberus turrets, and 7 solaris turrets on it and that loadout is pretty well balanced for taking on a variety of opponents. DPS against battlecruisers/battleships is pretty poor, but in group action becomes pretty effective. The solaris turrets seem decent enough at dealing with bombers that get too cheeky, and those that stay at range and use novas I can typically avoid. I'm still tweaking the loadout though, and honestly the cerberus turrets feel like the least-used guns on my ship, even though everyone raves about them in practice.
While I personally would only rely on Antonio's input, I can assure you from experience that a Siris with a mortar, two pulses and rest solaris have allowed me to quickly rank up to a Marduk in group fights. Cruiser gameplay is all about keeping the right distances, and even with the Siris being rather easy to hit in comparison with the Reshit, it can easily kite capitals with Pulse/Mortar while being generally well able annoy snubs with the Solarises. That being said, the Siris doesn't have much alternatives with the lack of missiles.
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(01-03-2019, 12:41 AM)Tenacity Wrote: Since my return to disco, I've been hopping around between ship classes trying to find a good fit, especially with all of the changes over the past years to balance and ship capabilities. In these past few weeks I've been focusing almost entirely on cruisers, and have committed myself to at least attempting to master them as my primary/preferred ship class. I'd like to hear from other cruiser-centric players, or those who are known to do well in them, and see what your preferred weapon loadouts and tactics are. Also, if anyone is up for training in conn, I'm always in need of practice.
At the moment, I have three cruisers, one of each sub-type to try and get a good grasp of how the entire ship class works with different loadouts, enemies, situations, etc:
"Siris" Nomad Cruiser (Heavy Cruiser, 4 heavy turrets, 8 light turrets, 2.25m core)
"Resheph" Order Recon Cruiser (Medium Cruiser, 3 heavy turrets, 9 light turrets, 1.8m core)
"Thresher" Core Destroyer (Light Cruiser, 2 heavy turrets, 6 light turrets, 1.4m core)
So far, surprisingly, I've had the most success using the Resheph/medium cruiser. I'm running 1 light mortar, 2 pulse turrets, 2 cerberus turrets, and 7 solaris turrets on it and that loadout is pretty well balanced for taking on a variety of opponents. DPS against battlecruisers/battleships is pretty poor, but in group action becomes pretty effective. The solaris turrets seem decent enough at dealing with bombers that get too cheeky, and those that stay at range and use novas I can typically avoid. I'm still tweaking the loadout though, and honestly the cerberus turrets feel like the least-used guns on my ship, even though everyone raves about them in practice.
There are 2 anti-bc and anti-bs cruiser flying styles - either as artillery support or aggressive in-your-face close range style.
Artillery support is far easier to learn and safer but noticeably less effective. I suggest all people learning cruisers to focus on this technique first simply because of its safety. The artillery support is straightforward - you use a mortar, 2-3 pulses and optionally long range missiles and try to hit enemy capital ships from long range. It means hitting you back is also much harder, but as a downside you're not maximizing your dps and there's a higher chance you will miss. Light mortar as your main damage source is a very inefficient weapon compared to cerberuses or primaries which are main damage dealers in the 2nd style. As you learn combat and different scenarios a fight can unfold into, you will gradually swap to the other, ultimately better technique.
Recommended ships: Any, but the heavier the better. Even the heaviest cruisers should not be getting hit too much, if at all, from 2k+ range, and they have more guns and noticeably more dps potential due to their powercore.
2nd style is what makes cruisers so good in the right hands. It focuses on maximizing dps while still retaining as much safety as possible. Your main damage dealing guns are primaries and cerberuses, and you fight at around 1400-1800 range. Anything closer than that and you will start getting hit too much, anything further than that and your guns are out of range. It's a very thin line to walk, especially if the enemy capital ships are trying to bait you into close range, which is why it may seem hard to learn at the start. It's much risker but much more rewarding, one mistake can mean an instakill or loss of all your regens but if done correctly your overall damage output will be much higher than by being artillery support. I suggest watching my videos to see how it's exactly done, here's a good example of one of the best events we had: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfwfyVtT9A8
Recommended ships: Light and medium. Heavy cruisers, no matter how good you are, are simply too big for this to be done reliably. You're too dependent on the enemy being bad than you being good, i.e if they're good they will be able to punish your big heavy cruiser, while if they're not you will be able to punish them. That's not the case with light and medium cruisers as no matter the enemy skill it's more about your skill of both dodging and keeping perfect range.
The loadout you chose is the most versatile one, but the hardest to use and not the best vs anything specific. Unless you mastered cruisers I suggest you stay away from it.
By far the most popular cruiser loadout is:
2x pulses
1x light mortar
1x cerberus for light cruisers, 2x cerberus for medium, 2x cerberus + devastator missile for heavy
Rest primaries
It's an all-round anti-cap loadout which you fight much more often than gunboats and smaller. You lack anti-snub and especially anti-gunboat weaponry but you're focusing your damage towards capital ships. If you're not confident to go into close range to exchange fire with the enemy, swap the cerberuses for missiles. You can alternate between 2 flying styles explained above during the fight (I often do because sometimes you're just forced to break off and your core regens). Remember one thing - no matter the flying style if your powercore is full you're wasting dps. It's better to shoot an inefficient weapon than not shoot any weapon in that case.
If you want an anti-snub cruiser (quite rare and generally not popular because there are better ways of dealing with snubs - either by logging a snub yourself or something like a solaris gunboat), go for solarises and a marauder + light mortar. The light mortar still offers you some anti-cap capabilities and threatens to instakill snubs, while the missile is good against gunboats and cruisers. If you have other heavy slots go for more missiles or solaris gatlings.
Two unique Thresher-only loadouts (because Thresher is the hardest cruiser to hit when flown correctly):
1x LM
2x pulses
1x repeater turret
4x Core primary
The repeater acts like 2 primaries, essentially making you have 6 primares, 2 pulses and a light mortar. Works great on the thresher because Core prims have extra speed + extra range for some reason.
2x blaster
2x pulse
4x Core primary
Blasters work great on the Thresher because it's so small it can use them against caps as well, and since Blaster dps is unmatched you're doing even more damage.
Edit: Cruiser duels. They're pretty straightforward - the heavier the ship, the better. Cerberuses and primares are again the best here, although there is one weapon that's extremely effective in this case - cruiser blasters. Blasters may overcome the difference in hull or powercore, but generally all a heavier cruiser has to win is to get closer than 500-700m and not lose that range. All a lighter cruiser can do to win is to keep the heavier cruiser at 700-900m where it can hit the bigger cruiser without getting hit back, but sometimes the difference in size is so negligible that is simply not possible. The heavier cruiser can always simply break off if it's being held between 700 and 900 range which is why it's very hard to win against it. Basically it can either be a stalemate if both ships never enter range, or the heavier cruiser will win.
its up to you how you going to use them. As one of the skilled cruiser players i mostly use multi-role loadouts on cruisers
Multirole Loadout;
Cerbs
Mortar
Primary Turrets
Pulses
Multi-role loadout is pretty much effective against anything. This loadout is best in large fleet fights and challenging fights. This is my fav loadout it saved me from 20+ Liberty Navy gank fleets and we only had 2-3 cruiser with 2-3 gb support, no snub supports even.
So as you can see i didn't write Solaris because Solaris is anti-gunboat and anti-snub only it is useless when it comes to capital ships. Primary turrets pretty much works same but it is a lot more useful than solaris turrets because it allows you to catch up with the DPS you lose and you can use primary turrets against everything.
Mortar is for instakilling snubs and long range engagement against dangerous capital ships(with pulses). Dangerous capital ships are : Battlecruisers/Caps with tons of secondaries/Skilled BS players that using Artillery to instakill cruisers etc.
Heavy Cruisers mostly good at tanking other cruisers, it is not good if you are planning to attack Gunboats and Snubs. Any Skilled BC/BS player will kill you if you 1v1 them because of Heavy Cruiser size. Nomad Cruiser is largest Cruiser so that means it is pretty easy to hit with BC/BS weapons try to stay away from skilled BC/BS players and use your Long range weapons.
It is up to you how you want to fly Heavy Cruiser. Nomad Cruiser can work as good support platform for Nomad Battleships. You don't have to use Nomad blasters on Siris because you've enough powercore/survivability to kill any human cruiser with Heavy Turrets+Primaries. Nomad Blasters are also not good when it comes to fight battleships/battlecruisers.
Nomad Cruiser is very vulnerable to snubs/gbs, mounting Pulse Beam + Shredders will work against Gunboats and Shredders against snubs.
Don't expect nomad capital ship missiles anytime soon im sure there is no one that gonna bother with creating 10+ unique effects for nomad missiles. Afaik Nomads can use human missiles so you can use them to support your allies if you are ok with having human tech on nomad ship lol
Missiles are better at supporting allies than Annihilator because of its advantages. However if you can't use Missiles because of Human Tech, using Heavy Turrets and Annihilator will work.
:Siris Multi-Role loadout: - If you are outnumbered, though it will work in fleet fights
Heavy Turrets
Annihilator
Pulse Beam
Primary Turrets/Shredders - I'd prefer Primary Turrets
Use pulse beam against gunboats, don't use them against Cruisers etc because you lose tons of powercore and you will deal less damage. Unless you're chasing the cruiser and missing shots.
:Siris Support Loadout: - If you've multiple allied battleships
Heavy Turrets/Missiles/Heavy Shredders
Annihilators/Missiles
Pulse Beam
Shredders/Neutralizers
Looks weird right? Especially with neutralizers. Neutralizers can be pretty useful because you can draw constant power from enemy ships so that means your nomad battleship allies not going to worry about Heavy Weapons. You need atleast 4 to prevent Osiris/Mako from recharging their powercore. However there is a problem with Neutralizers, it can instantly recharge powercores afaik it only happens after they go out from cruise and wait till powercore starts to recharge.If you want to be safe, don't use Neutralizers at the beginning of the fight, use them like 3-4 min later. So it shouldn't be a problem in middle of the fight. Also Heavy Cruiser powercore recharge speed enough to sustain 4 neutralizers. So that is 160K powercore drain per second, Light battleship powercore recharge will be down to 60K so this will help your allied nomad battleships a lot.
If you don't want to take risk use full Shredders.
Resheph is a medium cruiser and medium cruisers are best used with multi-role loadout. It seems you know that already. All you need to do is "keep your distance". Stay away from Heavy Cruisers that have brawler(multi-role) loadout and you will be fine.
Thresher is one of the best cruiser, I think Cruiser Blasters are best for them, atleast one blaster. Because you can go close range even against capital ships with tons of secondary turret on them. Cruiser Blasters doesnt drain power from Light Cruisers that much so it is very efficient weapon.
I'd go for Dual Blasters+Pulses+Primary turrets because you will be ignored most of the time in fleet fights so you can deal huge amount of damage when enemy capitals are focusing on your allied capital ships. Also if you are alone against heavy cruiser or medium cruiser you will have chance to kill them with x2 blasters.
If you want to be safe, use missiles/mortar to support your allies but Light cruiser powercore is slow and have less capacity so its not that good at supporting.
Another loadout is x1 Cerberus and x1 Mortar, rest primary or solaris its up to you.
I like every class of ship in the game. I even joust bombers with transports. However, cruisers are my specialty in capital fights.
The Order cruiser is a pretty amazing Medium Cruiser, as it has a medium cruiser's size and power core, while being more well-armed than most medium cruisers. It doesn't have the core of a Heavy Cruiser to maintain constant firing of all gun slots simultaneously, but if you use different weapons, it gives you the freedom to have multiple powerful weapon groups.
Your loadout sounds like the best loadout for the Reseph; you're taking advantage of its very high amount of light cruiser slots by essentially turning two of them into additional heavy slots. I can't think of a better loadout for you.
The Cerberus in your loadout, although not often used outside of Connecticut 1v1s, is still essential. Because you have 7x Solaris and 2x pulse, with no basic cruiser turrets, you need the Cerberus turrets for taking on skilled cruiser pilots who are too tough to take out with the Solaris, and too fast to hit with the mortar. Your 2 Cerberus turrets are equal to about 8 basic cruiser turrets.
As for your thresher, there are different builds that would work well for it.
If you want to be geared for sitting back in group fights and dealing damage while staying alive for the entire fight, then you can take advantage of the thresher's small size that makes it unhittable at the maximum range of the furthest-firing weapons available to cruisers. A Light mortar and a marauder missile, along with a pulse cannons and 5 solaris cruiser turrets, will prepare you to take on a variety of enemies and survive for the whole fight. The Light Mortar can single-handedly utilize your light cruiser power core for long-range hull damage, and is faster than most mortars, making it capable of hitting the heavier cruisers that your thresher will be likely to come across. The pulse cannon will enable you to efficiently take down shields. You may be wondering why you don't have two pulse cannons. The pulse cannon has pretty bad energy efficiency, so it's not especially effective at taking down shields when you have a light cruiser core. The single pulse cannon will have to work together with the occasional mortar shot to take down shields. This leaves you with 5 solaris cruiser turrets, which is more than enough to protect such a small ship from gunboats and snubcraft. Meanwhile, the energy-efficiency and agility of the Marauder Missile will make you a force to be reckoned with against cruisers; especially in group fights where they've got too much to deal with to always be focused on evading your already hard-to-dodge missiles. This build will not work as well in 1v1's, but it will keep you alive during group fights.
Another build you can use, for maximum efficiency and damage sustainability, is 2 cerberus cruiser turrets and 6 core cruiser turrets. The Core cruiser turrets have 50 m/s bonus speed, which, combined with the Thresher's small size, are able to still provide an adequate defense against snubcraft and gunboats, despite being primarily intended for use against cruisers. Additionally, their extra range puts them at 1795 range, nearly equal to the 1900 range of the cerberus. A lot of people will criticize this build, as it lacks the mortar and pulse cannons that are typically used on cruisers, but the Thresher is small enough to get within the range required to hit with these weapons, and survive. The Light Mortar build provides a maximum HDPS of 40,000 and SDPS of 29,300 against capitals, and a sustainable HDPS of 19,000 and SDPS of 13,100 (based on DPS and Energy Cost values). This Cerberus + Core Cruiser Turret build provides a maximum HDPS of 65,200 and SDPS of 32,600, and a sustainable HDPS of 31,800 and SDPS of 15,900. Provided that you have the skill to stay alive at the closer range, this build will allow you to provide a more significant role in group fights than the thresher would normally take. This build will also make you extremely deadly in 1v1 fights.
Thanks for the responses guys, especially antonio.
I've debated between the solaris and primaries for my Resheph, but tbh I hate order primaries, and I cant seem to hit anything with them (at least nothing smaller than another cruiser), Hence why i've stuck with the solaris.
(01-03-2019, 01:00 AM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: While I personally would only rely on Antonio's input, I can assure you from experience that a Siris with a mortar, two pulses and rest solaris have allowed me to quickly rank up to a Marduk in group fights. Cruiser gameplay is all about keeping the right distances, and even with the Siris being rather easy to hit in comparison with the *****, it can easily kite capitals with Pulse/Mortar while being generally well able annoy snubs with the Solarises. That being said, the Siris doesn't have much alternatives with the lack of missiles.
What pulse turrets are you using on a siris? All nomads have are pulse beams, which are vastly different from the pulse turrets human ships can use. As far as I know, we get a massive power core nerf using any human tech (aside from missile launchers, for some reason), which means we cannot equip normal pulse turrets on the siris. If I could use those, I wouldnt have a problem with making a good loadout for it =P
Pulse beams take too much power, and I see no reason to use two of them when you cant fire both at once (each takes about 60% of your core). I tried using a pulse beam for a while but it was ineffective against everything except gunboats, and I hardly ever seem to go up against gunboats, so I dropped it and went with 1 annihilator and 3 heavy turrets to maintain a little range against larger opponents.
I think I'm getting pretty good in the Resheph, though I've decided that I should probably get rid of the cerberus turrets in favor of repositioning my mortars. Fighting larger ships in conn, I've noticed that the thing that kills me the most is not being able to fire my mortar backwards due to the front heavy arc on the Resheph, and getting in cerb range is significantly more dangerous against larger ships. I fought a liberty carrier tonight and managed to get him down to around 60~% before I stopped kiting and tried to get into cerb range, and ended up taking too much damage at once.
Pulses I can fire two backwards but only one to each side, which makes range management more difficult, so I need to add one or two additional pulse turrets to make up for that when maneuvering. If I swapped my two cerbs for light mortars (and got rid of the front LM), I'd have full mortar coverage to the sides, front, and back, which would make kiting much easier. It's probably my lack of skill, but the Resheph feels just a hair on the big and slow side in regards to getting into cerberus range; I can do it on the thresher, but with the Resheph I just end up taking too much damage and cant get enough in before having to back off again.
For that front heavy mount, I'm thinking of using a missile or a gatling solaris to boost my anti-snub ability a bit more. Any suggestions? Trinity missile looks good for damage, but only has a 2k range, while if I went with something like the devastator it has 3-4k range and could be used in a more artillery like fashion. I think I need to stick to longer range kiting/artillery on this Resheph, and try the close range brawling only on my thresher.