Prelude
The topic at hand today is well-known, indicating that the majority of players in this community are aware of what is being discussed but choose to remain silent, thereby endorsing such occurrences. Although many developers, administrators, and similar individuals claim to strive for a balanced and fair game, numerous blatantly evident issues have persisted for decades without any consequences. However, recently, and most likely for quite some time before that, some players come forward and claim that their Wild characters are practically undetectable. They boldly claim that these characters have mastered the art of camouflage to such a degree that no one can uncover their true nature, granting them the freedom to act as they please. Whether it is acceptable to have such developers on the team is not the focus of my speech. In case you are unaware, I am referring to The Wild, the infected Nomad characters who have served as a tool for powergaming over the past decade, seemingly immune to any consequences for their flagrant violations of rules and lack of respect towards fellow players. Furthermore, the administrators have chosen to support this form of powergaming by introducing new tools that further improve their capabilities, presumably in an effort to sustain the Wild factions. This is merely my perspective on the motive at hand. However, it is evident that those same Wild factions have lost officialdom. You did not save them.
"Powergaming"
I will divide my speech into several paragraphs. In this paragraph, I will solely focus on the concept of the infamous powergaming. It is also widely understood that powergaming encompasses metagaming. However, I will refrain from discussing metagaming as powergaming has become so deeply rooted that it has given me very good reasons to express my thoughts at this moment. First and foremost, let me introduce the well-known rule: 2.3 - Metagaming/Powergaming is strictly prohibited. To be direct, I personally cannot recall a concrete instance where someone received a substantive penalty for this matter, one that punished them of certain privileges or similar consequences, particularly in the context of powergaming. Our colleague "Sombs" explained powergaming in a thread where he clarified both metagaming and powergaming. While I believe there are some aspects that have not been fully addressed, I will briefly shed light on them as I proceed with my critique. For now, it can be understood that powergaming entails your character not being invincible and being subject to roleplay consequences based on their actions. In essence, your character bears responsibility for the repercussions they face.
Overlooked OP Privileges of the Wild Official Factions & IndiesTHE IDEA OF OF WILD MOUNTING ANY ID: Now I will address specific issues that are often overlooked or even supported. What really concerns me is the "newest" addition (more than a year ago) allowing Wild factions the ability to MOUNT ANY ID under their Wild tag. This presents a significant array of problems, leading to even more issues that are astonishingly perplexing as to how they were permitted in the first place. I am uncertain who deemed this change favorable, but that is irrelevant. As previously mentioned, this alteration, first and foremost, FURTHER PROMOTES powergaming by enabling characters with such an approach to the game to lack any substantial background roleplay, thereby having the ability of imposing roleplay consequences on other players. What kind of roleplay consequences? Primarily, it is linked to The Order. The Order must endure all to difficult efforts to uncover these infected characters, involving GREAT DEDICATION. However, once they are discovered, these same characters have several choices. They can choose to change their identity, rendering The Order's work futile. Alternatively, they can generate drama (which we have always been threatened with at the hands of numerous Wild players and their ooRP friends) because we are the ones diligently performing our duties as expected. Alternatively, they can simply dismiss The Order's roleplay, as absolutely no one in Freelancer Discovery truly cares about interacting with someone infected by Nomads. This unequivocally has an adverse effect on the majority of the community who continue to support and permit this ongoing "illegal" play. It further reinforces the notion that providing Wild characters with such OP tools is utterly irrational.
EVEN MORE OP TECHCELL: The next issue that arises from granting such absurd privileges is the concept of the infinite techcell. You have given them the capability to assume any role without engaging in prior roleplay. I could now appear as the leader of a faction, gain popularity under the pretense that it is "impossible to detect a Wild playing the game 'properly,'" and subsequently infiltrate a government, thereby inflicting significant roleplay consequences upon the denizens of Sirius and beyond, or even actively partake in such activities. Shouldn't they possess vulnerabilities? It is worth noting that approximately 95% of characters made for various roleplay scenarios, complete with intricate backstories, do indeed exhibit vulnerabilities. Moreover, one can now surmise that the Order has successfully identified and exposed probably most and if not, all of them. What has been achieved by introducing these even more outrageous privileges? Such a take to sustain the vitality of Wild factions has ultimately been met with them even failing officialdom (because they were not interested anyway). I have even engaged in discussions with members of these very factions during that period, and they even expressed their genuine disagreement over such privileges.
"ROLEPLAY": Next point. Absurd roleplay. Meaningless roleplay. Call it what you will. Now, to some extent, you have even approved the notion that these same characters, devoid of any backstory, wander aimlessly from corner to corner of Sirius, engaging in mundane conversations solely to fulfill "officialdom requirements." I have witnessed numerous instances of such behavior with the current OF, to the point where it has become a circus. Besides do they partake in these activities, but they also avoid interactions with potential threats by resorting to metagaming, taking it to a whole new level. Furthermore, hasn't Wild already possessed a powerful tech cell? Haven't they had the opportunity to engage in meaningful roleplay before acquiring these privileges? Apparently not. Give them everything, let them do as they please, we couldn't care less. That seems to be the motivation behind all of this.
DISREGARD FOR NOMAD MOTIVES: Furthermore, I can continue to explain why this approach lacks coherence. An infected character, devoid of any background once again, suddenly has the freedom to do as they please. This extends to acts of violence against certain factions. What prompted this motive to support one side of the dialogue while disregarding the other? Believe it or not, I have conducted research on that specific character in question. The individual possesses absolutely no backstory, only some personal out-of-roleplay reasons to engage in combat. Wasn't the goal of the Wild to promote violence against humans rather than actively participate in it unless necessary? You have simply created such strange scenarios that hold no logical sense. You have given them these overpowered privileges, even neglecting the "RP" in the title DiscoveryGC 24/7 RP.
NARRATIVE INTEGRITY: Now that you have granted unlimited freedom and privileges to characters without any substantial background or development, you inadvertently undermine the essence of storytelling within the game. A well-crafted narrative thrives on character arcs, growth, and meaningful interactions. However, when characters can simply assume any role or engage in actions without consequence, the richness and depth of storytelling are compromised. This dilution of storytelling besides reducing the immersive experience but also devalues the efforts of players who invest time and creativity in developing intricate narratives within the game world.
DISREGARD FOR PLAYER INVESTMENT: Anywhere, players invest significant time, effort, and emotional energy into their characters and their progression. Now, that you've allowed random privileges and overlooking the need for roleplay and character development, there is a disregard for the investment players have made in creating meaningful and engaging experiences. This literally leads to player dissatisfaction, a sense of unfairness, and ultimately, a decline in overall community engagement. Neglecting the value of player investment harms individual player experiences, as it also hampers the long-term sustainability and growth of the community as a whole.
NULLIFICATION OF THE ORDER'S PURPOSE: Powergaming, by its very nature, undermines the core purpose and functionality of the Order. For those aware, I need not to resume further. But, I will, anyway. The Order is meant to be a secretive force tasked with the duty of uncovering and combating the infested characters. However, when powergaming allows these characters to effortlessly "evade detection" (which on its own is not possible) and manipulate the narrative (which is silly and dull), it renders the Order's efforts just FUTILE. This of course nullifies the Order's relevance within the general narrative, while also undermining the credibility and immersion of the entire storyline. Neutralizing the effectiveness of the Order through such nonsense, makes the freelancer's narrative lose a vital element of conflict and tension, leaving players with a diluted experience, nor any need to roleplay adequately.
WHY SRP ANYMORE? Introduction of Wild's unrestricted access to any ID disregards the purpose of Special Roleplay Requests (SRP) within the community. SRPs are designed to provide players with unique roleplay experiences by allowing them to assume specific identities, and backgrounds, according to ADEQUATE RP. However, when Wild characters can freely adopt any ID without the need for prior roleplay or justification, the value of SRPs is significantly undermined. This devalues the efforts of players who engage in SRPs. And now, the community loses a nice little avenue for enriched storytelling, character development, and memorable roleplay experiences. Of course, players can still independently choose, however, now it's not necceesary (BUT IT SHOULD BE). Before, it was necessary.
WILD DIALOGUE?! This is now a somewhat controversial viewpoint, although it is based on lore foundations. However, almost all those who hide behind infested characters consistently speak like regular individuals with all the nuances of normal emotions, thoughts, and the like. Shouldn't infested characters be distinguished differently? Shouldn't they have a more direct and less complex dialogue, just to showcase some contrast? How is it possible that Nomads, who are massive parasites, find themselves within a human body and flawlessly control all processes? In vanilla, this was not the case. This aspect is also highly critical and greatly overlooked. "Just RP like a 100% normal human "
What did I achieve with this? In addition to the time I've spent writing all of this, I want the administration to finally take into consideration and put an end to these privileges, as they are unnecessary, redundant, undermining roleplay, degrading the standing of many characters, destroying the need for any reasonable roleplay, and the list goes on. Roleplay should have meaning. Not all characters can be all-powerful and invincible. At least it shouldn't be that way. This narrative simply must be eradicated. People need to realize that this is not the real world and that they should face roleplay consequences. I could write much more about these same issues and even more about metagaming, but for now, I don't want to waste my time on it. Honestly, if changes haven't happened so far, I don't expect them now either. However, as someone who cares about progress within and outside the game, changes are necessary. Take them with a warm heart. Ta-da!
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I will admit I skimmed this post, rather than read it properly, for now. But I will say that I agree with many of your points. I'll give it a better read later after I drop some of my thoughts here.
The theory behind the virtually unrestricted Wild ID was that restrictions would be enforced by the official faction(s) using it. Aoi had explicit rules against crazy tech-mixing, mandated that its players own native Kusari tech ships, demanded explanations/bios for characters that weren't "just" the standard-issue Kusari infectees the faction represented, etc. I will say that these standards lowered over time as people became increasingly worried with passing activity checks rather than being the highest quality possible faction.
That theory only holds up as long as everyone understands the "rules" you implicitly agree to when using a virtually unrestricted ID as a player and/or faction.
I never liked the "Fly any ID" exception. I never made use of it. I never encouraged Aoi's members to make use of it. I think expecting the entire server to try their very hardest to ignore your blatant infectee tag is just unfair to them. If you want to be an undercover infectee, do so untagged or as part of any other player faction, and use that faction's regular ID. My own Aoi Iseijin character did exactly this, as Cipriano Adimari was a CL} (Outcast Faction; Contari Lance) member first, and a Wild character second. And he was definitely a little bit weird, which members of the faction picked up on often enough. But maybe he was just on the spectrum, who knows.
I do also agree that it is very important for infectee characters to actually have flaws and to be, "to the trained eye", recognizable as infectees. While I do believe that they should come across as very human - as that is the point of their existence - there need to be some "cracks" and faults someone can notice if they pay enough attention. I have also toyed with ideas of "scannable items" that are mandatory to be equipped on infected characters that specialized scanners (that a faction like the Order would have access to) could detect, or something along those lines.
As it is I think Wild ID'd ships, and regular-ID'd-but-wild-tagged, have it a little bit too easy. Excessive use of those non-Wild ID'd ships makes it so factions like the Core, Order and even intelligence factions are powerless against their main adversary. This sucks and needs to change.
tldr; Discovery lacks easy-to-enforce character deaths making Nomads and their Nomad thralls hard to actually fight against. Who would've thought.
No, but, really, all that has been said above can be summarized with what I mentioned. As a former Aoi member I can also bring up the fact that the ID allowances are actually beneficial towards the Wild playerbase, but only if they're restricted (no, Wilds don't find battlecruisers around) and if they're flown by actually decent individuals instead of John Doe.
Also on a slight tangent: With all due respect to Order players, unless Discovery starts enforcing actual character deaths as a rule, your faction's more or less irrelevant as its modus operandi revolves around assassinating important figures that are deemed a threat to humanity or the faction itself. Killing the same player in-game over and over to proclaim that it's finally destroyed just ain't cutting it, which is part of why I stopped playing both my Order and Wild characters.
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A lot of these points in here are pretty wild takes, and counter-point, would likely cause people to metagame even HARDER, since people see a post and subconsciously meta and use the littlest of 'evidence' to justify it. I've seen it happen to others. I have also been the victim of it with a non infected char over the years, and I've seen them do the exact same thing and it's apparently OK for them to do it. Meta has been a huge issue in Disco.
We shouldn't be giving Order players the ability to kill other characters, especially when they've already falsely accused characters of being infested in the past to gain a free pvp ticket. Arguably, the Order also made their efforts nullified by doing these things in the past. Likewise, Wild can't go up and randomly assassinate people or gain critical intel. I wouldn't want to wish any faction to force a char death really because you know how players can be like in Disco.
Have you tried playing a casual infectee yourself? Not all characters have to aim for the stars, I personally feel like the best kind of subterfuge characters are just normal characters who work their way up.
The only correct take in this thread is the powergaming regarding people making a genuine mistake and getting whoopsied out into detection. And I think it's really really silly that people cling to "the dark... the light... " etc lingo while undercover on Wild. Probably fine if they're going loud.
As for how people could avoid detection and remain in certain positions...? It's also probably good to remember nepotism and corruption is pretty rampant in universe, so in more ""civilized"" areas you could even bribe people to avoid scans. There's also another factor of whether colonies bother to add in scanning capabilities, because it incurs a lot of expenses. As you may know, Freelancer is a capitalist dystopia that frequently has had cases of them cutting corners with safety in jobs etc.
Why would anyone care about a threat that was defeated - that everyone was cured - that these threats only appear in the Omicrons? There's not a lot of post-war lore as is anyhow. And there's the other factor of people not believing it, or seeing extra security things as an oppression to one's privacy and rights - it could be possible that colonists protested against further scanning, but thats headcanon that can be made up. I'd say in colonies there's lots of reasons to evade it, but going on higher security places like Order bases? Yeaaah, probably not gonna fly. Plus, we haven't really seen if Incubi also 'evolved' too - like how the ships have evolved. But it's safe to assume there hasn't been much change.
Quote:You have given them the capability to assume any role without engaging in prior roleplay.
This applies to every role in the game. Every role. And they can use said privileges themselves if they wanted. Nothing stops "good roleplayers" from using the role. I wonder why they don't?
Quote:Absurd roleplay. Meaningless roleplay. Call it what you will. Now, to some extent, you have even approved the notion that these same characters, devoid of any backstory, wander aimlessly from corner to corner of Sirius, engaging in mundane conversations solely to fulfill "officialdom requirements."
No offence, but who are you to determine what RP is useless? Slice of life RP is just as important as characters who have greater ambitions/big schemers. Officialdom aside, you are basically complaining that people are RPing? Why does it suddenly matter what RP style you go with just because of an ofl tag?
I don't really see a lot of Wild characters these days. Maybe you can make one to inspire people?
(05-28-2023, 12:59 PM)Haste Wrote: I will admit I skimmed this post, rather than read it properly, for now. But I will say that I agree with many of your points. I'll give it a better read later after I drop some of my thoughts here.
The theory behind the virtually unrestricted Wild ID was that restrictions would be enforced by the official faction(s) using it. Aoi had explicit rules against crazy tech-mixing, mandated that its players own native Kusari tech ships, demanded explanations/bios for characters that weren't "just" the standard-issue Kusari infectees the faction represented, etc. I will say that these standards lowered over time as people became increasingly worried with passing activity checks rather than being the highest quality possible faction.
That theory only holds up as long as everyone understands the "rules" you implicitly agree to when using a virtually unrestricted ID as a player and/or faction.
I never liked the "Fly any ID" exception. I never made use of it. I never encouraged Aoi's members to make use of it. I think expecting the entire server to try their very hardest to ignore your blatant infectee tag is just unfair to them. If you want to be an undercover infectee, do so untagged or as part of any other player faction, and use that faction's regular ID. My own Aoi Iseijin character did exactly this, as Cipriano Adimari was a CL} (Outcast Faction; Contari Lance) member first, and a Wild character second. And he was definitely a little bit weird, which members of the faction picked up on often enough. But maybe he was just on the spectrum, who knows.
I do also agree that it is very important for infectee characters to actually have flaws and to be, "to the trained eye", recognizable as infectees. While I do believe that they should come across as very human - as that is the point of their existence - there need to be some "cracks" and faults someone can notice if they pay enough attention. I have also toyed with ideas of "scannable items" that are mandatory to be equipped on infected characters that specialized scanners (that a faction like the Order would have access to) could detect, or something along those lines.
As it is I think Wild ID'd ships, and regular-ID'd-but-wild-tagged, have it a little bit too easy. Excessive use of those non-Wild ID'd ships makes it so factions like the Core, Order and even intelligence factions are powerless against their main adversary. This sucks and needs to change.
Some very nice takes by OP.
+1 Haste.
Virtually nothing to add at all.
Give back old Aoi qq
How many times have I flown around Liberty on my "undercover" infected character... No one has ever tried to figure him out, though I've always left plenty of hints that, with due diligence, would have revealed him immediately, trivially stopping him even for a routine check.
I partly agree with the author that too much power has been thrown at the infected, but the main problem is that no one even tries to do anything about them, or at least reveal them. Although sometimes it's worth just scanning and maybe something interesting will turn up?
There's something to be said for the origin of the infected, too. There are different factions (at least Aoi Isejin, Das Wylde, and D9 are not active nowadays) of the infected. When the Vagrant-infectees do their research, surveillance, and information gathering, the K'Hara, in turn, destroy people by affecting them. Not every Wild follows the goals of capturing, infecting the higher echelons of government
Yes, and in fact, these days the Wilds have absolutely no effect on anything. No one tries to infiltrate the government, and in the Navy and elsewhere there are sporadic cases, and it makes no sense.
upd: Oh, and also, we have plenty of factions that do surveillance on people... Even the LSF, as an example.
Since Aoi is a failed and now irrelevant faction without the ID possibility and this really only applies to Faes, I will mention their case.
We had an issue with that multi ID on [FLG]. We were there when Faes was conceived as infected mercenaries/freelancers flying freelancer ID lead by gallic character. All were Fae tagged, we did multiple events, hauling contracts, RP with them taking them as mercenaries.
When they got officialdom their members kept using Fae tag, on freelancer ID same as before - so we roleplayed with them as the allied mercenaries we have known them as for months - but apparently that was wrong, suddenly we were meant to pretend we don't see their tag, their member(s) even told us to stop roleplaying with them as we had before - it was very confusing, still IS confusing and any interactions just ...fizzled out as this was all so confusing, all that roleplay down the tubes apparently? We still have no clue what to do, the rules are ....awkward in this case.
But, on the flip side, you do need to give a chance to have activity on the faction at the same token - the pawn ID is ridiculously weak. Being an OF is not only useless but actively detrimental thing to most factions. But Wild absolutely need officialdom to be able to exist, and forcing Faes to fly non-nomad IDs without the tag would make their life impossible and shouldn't be put upon them.
I do not see a straightforward solution here. If there is talk about changes, it should be co-designed with Faes as they will be the only ones impacted by this.
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The Order and Faes were my first factions to get a proper run on Discovery and I have to say I agree with @Haste and @Darius. While the idea of playing an alien agent within the ranks of humanity sounds appealing at first, at its core such a character is very difficult to detect and even more difficult to "neutralize". As a Fae, there was nothing stopping me from infiltrating other factions and lobbying for my goals - the Order, expert Nomad killers, were virtually defenseless against my Fae, who had enough brain cells to act naturally and not carry alien equipment.
A lot of people criticize the Order for not doing their job and only caring about their human enemies - no wonder, they can't do anything realistic against the Nomads and their agents under the current rules.
If there is to be any dynamic between the Nomads and the Order, these rules need to change. The Order are practically THE Nomad Hunters, and the server rules force them to play the role of just helpless babbling zealots while the Nomad allies can just powergame their way out of any suspicion.
The Order and Faes were my first factions to get a proper run on Discovery and I have to say I agree with @Haste and @Darius. While the idea of playing an alien agent within the ranks of humanity sounds appealing at first, at its core such a character is very difficult to detect and even more difficult to "neutralize". As a Fae, there was nothing stopping me from infiltrating other factions and lobbying for my goals - the Order, expert Nomad killers, were virtually defenseless against my Fae, who had enough brain cells to act naturally and not carry alien equipment.
A lot of people criticize the Order for not doing their job and only caring about their human enemies - no wonder, they can't do anything realistic against the Nomads and their agents under the current rules.
If there is to be any dynamic between the Nomads and the Order, these rules need to change. The Order are practically THE Nomad Hunters, and the server rules force them to play the role of just helpless babbling zealots while the Nomad allies can just powergame their way out of any suspicion.
Change it, please.
The ingenious idea of the Wilds being infiltrated into the Order, notwithstanding the fact that their agents are constantly being checked for medical indicators and psychological condition.
upd: By allowing the Order to kill those they choose, the level of metagaming would increase. Not every suspect is truly infected. Only this fact is very likely to be forgotten by everyone, so the number of Wilds will decrease dramatically, as well as the number of RP characters on the server. Initially, yes, the infected people will die
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I did not have my Fae within the Order, that would not make any sense, but I could fly around them and laughing at them for their "deluded fanatism" and they could not do anything to reveal me if I did not want it.
The Order is forced to fly with their tags openly, but Wilds aren't. How's that fair? How's that even fun for the Wilds?
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