1. Civilians that have chosen to live at the edges of space.
2. No unified standing army. No unified national territory to defend. Very lose, anarchy like system.
3. A few small factions, TAZ being the most prominent and only one to own a system (3 bases included).
4. Produces Destroyers, Carriers, and Dreadnought Battleships that can rival those of the 4 Houses.
Let's look at another neutral faction: Sweden.
1. Unified country with a population of just over 9 million.
2. Standing army with 34 thousand military personnel.
3. No Destroyers. No Frigates. No Battleships. No Carriers. 9 submarines.
4. Their most advanced naval non-submarine vessel: a corvette
So where's the roleplaying logic behind Zoners piloting super advanced Juggies left and right, let alone 1?
My proposal for setting the world upright: turn the Juggy into a space colony ship. Get rid of this super Battlestar warship nonsense.
Zoner Colony ship would:
1. Not be allowed to attack anyone unless attacked. Not patrol or be stationed to defend Freeports. Not pursue enemy ships actively, only defend the citizens it ferries.
2. Do some trading that is RP logical. A colony ship is like a small town. It might trade food and some other supplies. Probably not nuclear devices or military vehicles.
Besides the overwhelming logical reasoning behind the non-existence of Zoner Dreadnoughts, there's also (pardon expression) cap-whoring to think about. I presume a lot less people will fly Juggys if they're turned into flying space stations. As for the Zoner Carriers and Destroyers: well, you could sort of kind of explain those if you really stretch the RP. However, I really think the Dreadnought has to go as a battleship concept.
I don't consider a real-life comparison to a country which has nothing to do with the fictional Zoners as "overwhelming logical reasoning".
Zoners have lots of territory to defend - their guard systems and all the Freeports about. The idea of the "mysterious Juggernaut" hiding in the nearby nebula, waiting to strike out and defend the Freeport from any interlopers, actually makes sense when you think about it. Diplomacy can only get you so far - there are some people who will only listen to the sound of gunfire.
Individual Zoner capital ships may be strong, but the Houses have many more capital ships and the ability to produce them, so the Zoners aren't exactly comparable with the Houses (especially not on a localised scale).
The Zoner juggernaut is also used as a colony ship already. Read the infocard?
(Allow me to clarify, Zoners as whole do not fight many other factions as they are neutral to most. The only faction they really need to contend with is nomads, so what is this cap-whoring you speak of?)
Edit: As you know nomad equipment is rather weak, which means the Zoner Juggernaut should also be weak.
Sure read the card. Saw it used as a colony ship. Also saw it used as a war vessel that could rival the mighty Liberty's or Rhineland's. And in ridiculous numbers that could easily rival the Houses.
Diplomacy can only get you so far, which is why you have Eagles, Civilian Bombers, and so forth. Dreadnoughts are mega, super heavy Battleships.
A mysterious Juggernaut hiding somewhere in the depths of space doesn't sound so mysterious when you see everybody and their brother flying one.
EDIT:
Quote:(Allow me to clarify, Zoners as whole do not fight many other factions as they are neutral to most. The only faction they really need to contend with is nomads....
What's more imposing to freeport invaders - some eagles, or a Juggernaut which in RP is mysterious and extremely intimidating?
Have you seen it used as a war vessel? Against who, I might add? Against Nomads and Wilde? Sure, that's a proper use of it, to defend Zoner installations against enemies.
Edit: Many things in game require suspension of disbelief. Planets and stations being so small, battleships being so small, the physics, the weaponry, the ships flying the way they do, the way ships are designed in terms of space travel, etc. The Juggernaut's mysterious reputation is another thing for you to imagine, not base off in game activity which does not accurately depict the true Discovery universe.
' Wrote:Sure read the card. Saw it used as a colony ship. Also saw it used as a war vessel that could rival the mighty Liberty's or Rhineland's. And in ridiculous numbers that could easily rival the Houses.
Diplomacy can only get you so far, which is why you have Eagles, Civilian Bombers, and so forth. Dreadnoughts are mega, super heavy Battleships.
A mysterious Juggernaut hiding somewhere in the depths of space doesn't sound so mysterious when you see everybody and their brother flying one.
So you want to limit the amount of Juggernauts seen by nerfing them like liners? (Which detracts from it's use and the ship's RP.)
In RP it is meant to be the ultimate, one Juggernaut in Theta is meant to scare off the entire Corsair nation from striking against FP9. You want to make that into a colony ship? (The Corsairs are guaranteed to attack it for food then.)
Edit: Not to mention Zoners already have another solely colony ship.
If you are going to quote me for supposedly proving your point, quote the entire sentence at least. (Oh, and try to answer the question, instead of making it look like a statement.)
The Juggernaut is already relatively lightly armed and armored for its size... One of the biggest, if not the biggest, battleship out there. It can blow stuff up, sure, but it's as much a flying city as a war machine/big stick.
' Wrote:If you are going to quote me for supposedly proving your point, quote the entire sentence at least. (Oh, and try to answer the question, instead of making it look like a statement.)
Edit: Yes, keep posting Drake.:D
The cap-whoring I speak of is seeing every other Zoner hiding in a cap, which I suppose is fine. I guess that's the Discovery culture. I just think it's a little ridiculous that Zoners are allowed to fly super battleships, let alone in such numbers.
Sure, it's a spaceship video game, it ain't real. I just thought I'd propose a bit of believability.
' Wrote:The cap-whoring I speak of is seeing every other Zoner hiding in a cap, which I suppose is fine. I guess that's the Discovery culture. I just think it's a little ridiculous that Zoners are allowed to fly super battleships, let alone in such numbers.
Sure, it's a spaceship video game, it ain't real. I just thought I'd propose a bit of believability.
Well, we are usually in rather hostile areas of space. (Have you seen how long a fighter last if it runs into a Nomad Assassin patrol?)
Unfortunately, your bit of believability cuts into other people's fun and RP, not to mention would make the ship pretty much useless and goes against RP about the ship.
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