An observation about the use of the new freelancer and mercenary id's. From my experience of them, they are a license to shoot anything with a price on its head with impunity.
And then I recalled these wise words, when a particular "neutral" mercenary faction got flamed on the forums in the past.:
Quote:1) Aint no such thing as neutrality.
2) Mixing lawful crud and unlawful crud is a no go. You can't make out with the Bounty Hunters then turn around and make out with the Outcasts to turn around again and make out with the Corsairs without someone slapping you.
3) Want to play nice with the unlawfuls and get their toys? Don't turn around and work for the good guys.
4) Want to play nice with the lawfuls and get their toys? Don't turn around and work for the bad guys.
5) Kill the lawfuls, don't go begging for them to let you keep floating in manhat orbit. Kill the unlawfuls, don't go begging for them to not set you to hostile.
Why Liberty lets any mercs with unlawful kit float in their orbit doing their bidding, or any lawful looks at a guy in a BH ship and reckons he's good to go is beyond me.
I recall people getting sanctioned for attacking others whse reputation was set to neutral. Are the reputations of these ID's are somehow outside this requirement?
And the ship-line - oh, the ship line. The best VHFs and bombers in game, but if you want something else, write up a nifty story and its all good, even if it belongs to a group you attack?
Yeah, that's pretty much what a Mercenary and Freelancer is and do. How would you prefer a 'gun for hire' acts?
Is this a discussion, complaint or observation? Because it's pretty confusing.
' Wrote:An observation about the use of the new freelancer and mercenary id's. From my experience of them, they are a license to shoot anything with a price on its head with impunity.
And then I recalled these wise words, when a particular "neutral" mercenary faction got flamed on the forums in the past.: I recall people getting sanctioned for attacking others whse reputation was set to neutral. Are the reputations of these ID's are somehow outside this requirement?
And the ship-line - oh, the ship line. The best VHFs and bombers in game, but if you want something else, write up a nifty story and its all good, even if it belongs to a group you attack?
I don't know where the bolded came from, and I also doubt it's validity but I'll quote the people in the know. "The colours of the ships mean nothing." This is evidenced quite strongly by
Zoner Guard Rep. I do not have anything against the Zoners. But their Guards are red to me.
That doesn't mean I need to treat them with any hostility, just because they are red.
I strongly agree with, "there's no such thing as neutrality," (except for Neutral ID).
Everything can be RP'ed a reason for attacking.
The problem comes from people not communicating things correctly.
The no-responsibility people are outnumbering the self-responsibilty people.
Which is the reason that rules keep coming up.
If someone attacks a zoner infront of you, let all other Zoners know.
Let the gumps hurt a bit from the none use of all Zoner freeports or equipment.
All this can be done in RP ofcourse,
but there is essentially no real ingame, in roleplay consequences for a persons actions on this server.
Edit: I think if there were, people would be a hell of a lot more careful in what they did/shot at/talked back to.
Sovereign Wrote:Seek fun and you shall find it. Seek stuff to Q_Q about and you'll find that, too. I choose to have fun.
' Wrote:Yeah, that's pretty much what a Mercenary and Freelancer is and do. How would you prefer a 'gun for hire' acts?
Is this a discussion, complaint or observation? Because it's pretty confusing.
Mostly the first and third. Kind of the second, but the complaint is a general one. The ID system can drastically alter gameplay. People will always find ways around limitations to indulge themselves. And from a few experiences of my own, and what people have recounted themselves, that seems to be what FL and Merc ID's are becoming. As well as convenient outputs for inter-player grudges. But that's another matter.
My point is that the effective use of these ID's in-game becomes a license to kill with no consequences. Or, to put it another way, to treat the game as a PvP game, with no role-play consequences. You can just as easily be claiming from two employers who are at odds with each other. This was a big stink for the Jupiter Guild, but the principles seem to have changed in the last few months. Since when was it acceptable for a character or faction to work for two groups that are diametrically opposed? It makes absolutley zero sense, given the amount of role-play attached to these characters.
The colour of the ships does mean something. You can't just waltz into an enemy guard system with the faction npc's not firing on you - its exploitation of game mechanics. Combat must rely on a scan for ID, but there are many instances of people getting sanctioned for attacking others near an enemy base which isn't firing on the attacker, because the attacker has the faction he/she is targetting set to neutral. I recall people being told that if you are going to attack someone and their rep is neutral you should at the very least fire off a CD to make npc's hostile. EG If you are attacking a lawful character outside say Westpoint for money that the Rogues are paying, the station should be firing on you. But Freelancers seem to be able to do this and still fly around with nary a concern, still sporting ships and weaponry from wherever they feel. The limitation in ship size doesn't even come into it - three people in bombers can cause as much annoyance as any lone capship.
And I agree about the responsibility thing. There should be consequences. It is hardly convincing RP if there are none.
For the Freelancers i play i put RP limitations on them. Like Ie, my freelancer will not fly around in a sabre with tizzies and stuff. I don't like that. Instead if i am being neutra i keep everything about them civillian. No Factionalised weaponry or ships.
Which is the way it should be done i personally believe. However it is upto others how they RP thier ship.
Plus neutrality what is this. All of my ships have hostility to some groups. You would not be able to attack mr. hacker and not be put on a bad rep with the hackers.
' Wrote:However it is upto others how they RP thier ship.
That's the problem. They are, at present, the only ID's with such "freedom" - or, to put it another way, "without consequences". Everyone else has to figure out how to rp his or her ship by reference to carefully worded ID cards, a technology chart and so forth...but these, apparently not.
theres always been a sort of "code" that ive followed on my merc/freelancer characters. if i use certain equipment from a faction, i do NOT attack/hunt them whatsoever, regardless of what amount im offered, unless the terms are VERY drastic (for example, at one point i had an inferno on a R talon, was offered a 50 mill hit on a cast pilot, + 3 tizonas to compensate for the loss of the inferno, that is something that i would accept, with enough Rp done to show the switch of allegiances is been made[granted this is early 4.84 and rules were much less strict then, but im trying to prove a point]).
From what ive seen, ALOT of people in merc/freelancer chars use ships/equipment then hunt the faction who made said equipment, justifying by saying "hey, im just a merc, i work for whoever pays the most". while most of the time this is actually true, since mercenaries are pretty much self indulging greedy bastards who wanna make the biggest payday they can from each job they do, this somewhat spits on the fair play part of the game. some of the established players that make freelancers/mercs have enough sense to NOT pull such moves, but sadly that cannot be said for most others.
taking into recent bounties, if say, i hunt the cartel for the bounty prize, i would NOT take on bounties offered by the cartel on other mercs/freelancers/anyone else who claims cartel bounties for obvious reasons. im sure the cartel would rather put a bullet through my char's head than deal with a two timing lying sonofabitch merc.
Personally, i dont like how people choose to hunt both sides just to make the biggest profit they can. its like trying to start a neutral faction on discovery, then stating how the faction ship list involves corsair ship and equipment, and then dock on Malta because of the faction neutrality to everyone.
Aye this is a problem, the key fact of it is if used irresponsibly the freelancer ID does a lot of harm. However if used correctly. It is a great RP tool.
Personally i am unsure about the Borderworld ship line and wether it is generic or now considered unlawful so i tend to avoid it.
Another point it people may be less inclined to use a faction fighter if there was some more truly generic ships to choose from. But that is just my 2 cents on the subject of ship. I mean now you have the renzu line coming in but then if you want to be generic you cant go into bretonia as it is a kusarian ship and they may not like it. So maybe more 'redone' CTE ships are required in that area.
My point is giving the freelancer more choice on the civillian weapons and ships may make him less inclined to get a titan with an inferno and tizzies. Which i think has been done?
' Wrote:Mostly the first and third. Kind of the second, but the complaint is a general one. The ID system can drastically alter gameplay. People will always find ways around limitations to indulge themselves. And from a few experiences of my own, and what people have recounted themselves, that seems to be what FL and Merc ID's are becoming. As well as convenient outputs for inter-player grudges. But that's another matter.
My point is that the effective use of these ID's in-game becomes a license to kill with no consequences. Or, to put it another way, to treat the game as a PvP game, with no role-play consequences. You can just as easily be claiming from two employers who are at odds with each other. This was a big stink for the Jupiter Guild, but the principles seem to have changed in the last few months. Since when was it acceptable for a character or faction to work for two groups that are diametrically opposed? It makes absolutley zero sense, given the amount of role-play attached to these characters.
The colour of the ships does mean something. You can't just waltz into an enemy guard system with the faction npc's not firing on you - its exploitation of game mechanics. Combat must rely on a scan for ID, but there are many instances of people getting sanctioned for attacking others near an enemy base which isn't firing on the attacker, because the attacker has the faction he/she is targetting set to neutral. I recall people being told that if you are going to attack someone and their rep is neutral you should at the very least fire off a CD to make npc's hostile. EG If you are attacking a lawful character outside say Westpoint for money that the Rogues are paying, the station should be firing on you. But Freelancers seem to be able to do this and still fly around with nary a concern, still sporting ships and weaponry from wherever they feel. The limitation in ship size doesn't even come into it - three people in bombers can cause as much annoyance as any lone capship.
And I agree about the responsibility thing. There should be consequences. It is hardly convincing RP if there are none.
You argue that these IDs give people the ability to ignore RP and have free PvP. However, limitations such as these would also limit and punish people for RPing. Many people choose weapons and ships to reflect their characters history, not their alignment. While I don't agree with that personally, I respect other peoples' RP. I don't believe changes should be made to the game to compensate for the actions of those who abuse the mechanics in a detramental way. Because it punishes the innocent people just as much.
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