Alright, so to preface this... The Order has it's problems, nobody will disagree there. Primarily these problems lie with an abundance of players who are... not motivated to RP... as well as the fact that the faction has completely lost it's original playstyle and purpose. Rather than operating in a stealthy manner as it should, we seem to have become an all out warring faction with it's own fleets and bolstered numbers. We have been discussing these issues within the order high command for months now, and the only true agreement that we've come to is "something has to change".
What follows are numerous suggestions which have been put forward by both myself and others within the order high command, which serve as the possible changes to correct the issues within our faction. While most of these will not go over well with the community, at least those who play within the order right now, the purpose of this thread is feedback and -constructive- criticism of the ideas. Flaming or worthless posting here will be removed, without warning.
Topic 1: The Order-BHG War
Most of us within the high command agree on one thing - the BHG war needs to end. The primary reason for this is to try and cut out at least a portion of the so called "lolwutters" within the order faction.
It is well realized at this point that the BHG war brings very little to us other than pure pvp. The bhg are a large, widespread group, with hundreds of nonfactioned players who strive for little more than to shoot whatever shows up as red on their screen. In turn, this attracts the same kind of players to The Order for one simple reason - it gives them a near constant, reliable target. You can log on almost any time of the day with an order character, and there will be bounty hunter players nearby to go pick a fight with.
Many of us, including myself, believe that the BHG war serves no real purpose. Sure, the BHG are trying to get technology - that gives them a purpose, but not us. Personally, I disagree with the BHG ever getting a capship fleet to begin with, as they were never depicted as the kind of faction which would go to war or require such ships during the singleplayer campaign. However, such cannot be changed now.
Simply put, if we end the order-bhg war, many players within the order will find that they either no longer have a reliable target, or simply do not have enough pvp action to sate their thirst, and will leave. At least, that's what we're hoping for. The order should be focused on dealing with wilde and nomads, no one else.
One fear brought up by this particular change is that instead of leaving the order entirely, the pvp-oriented players will simply begin to harass our liberty enemies (navy and LSF) instead. This is a potential problem with such a change, but there are already some restrictions in place on that front - capships are still not allowed in liberty (order capships, that is), so the bulk of the fighting would end up focusing on alaska, well out of view of the discovery populace. Even then, alaska has it's own threats which we do not encounter in the usual omicron systems, making it even more difficult for these players to survive there.
The idea to end this war is simple - the BHG and Order wind up in one massive battle with the majority of their fleets and forces all in one locale. During this battle, the nomads take advantage of the chaos and destroy both fleets in one blow. With severely reduced forces, the order is forced to turn from it's overt policy back to a covert one, focusing on stealth and intrigue rather than all out warfare. Similarly, with it's own forces depleted, the BHG core would pull back and cut off the order-bhg war, realizing that the technology they hoped to gain is no longer worth the cost. The Core would turn it's focus primarily onto the corsairs and outcasts, going back to traditional bounty hunting in the edgeworlds rather than warfare.
Topic 2: Overt vs Covert Policy
Throughout the campaign, the Order was always a covert organization. It had very few ships, and thus focused primarily on placing spies, collecting information, and making key precision strikes when destructive force was warranted. With Discovery, we've completely strayed from that role, and now seem to be focused on open warfare against both the nomads as well as other enemies, mentioned above.
If topic 1 goes through, then the order will, in-RP, have lost the majority of it's fleets and personnel. Without it's large battlefleets to continue open warfare campaigns against it's enemies, the order will be forced to change it's approach to both the nomads and other groups throughout sirius. Rather than warfare, the order needs to revert to it's original role of stealth, infiltration, and information gathering. Ideally, the order will be 'invisible' to other factions until a nomad or wilde shows up, and then will appear 'out of nowhere' with forces to defend humanity against that threat.
Now, one change suggested by some of the Keepers themselves was to refrain from having an actual 'home system', beyond omicron 100. Instead of having one system which all order players are based out of, we would establish hidden, dockable osiris-class ships throughout sirius, one in each house and several placed strategically throughout the edge worlds, from which the order would operate.
Just like our battleship in alaska, which cannot be detected on sensors and is very well hidden, these other osiris class battleships would, in essence, be 'cloaked', as well as hidden within natural obstructions such as asteroid fields or nebula.
My choice would be to place one of these bases inbetween each of the four houses, as well as one in each of the edge areas (the sigmas, omegas, taus, and omicrons respectively). Some example locations would be:
-Within the dark matter clouds in kepler or galileo
-Within the barrier ice fields of magellan
-In the asteroid field near the lost battlestar in omicron delta
And other such inhospitable locations in systems such as Bering/Hudson, the sigmas, omegas, and taus.
Having such bases placed throughout Sirius allows the order to split up and operate in smaller groups, each with their own area and agenda. Similarly, these bases could prevent capital ships from docking with them, which further restricts the out of control capital ship swarms the order currently experiences. The only area that our capital ships would now be capable of operating from would be Omicron 100.
Topic 3: Allegiances
The majority of the order high command has agreed that our current allegiances neither make sense, nor benefit us. During the campaign, the order allied with numerous groups... the hackers, the rogues, the Bundschuh, the IMG, the blood dragons, even the outcasts temporarily. However, for some reason unknown to us, Discovery has cut off all of these past, reliable alliances and instead allied us with the corsairs and hogosha - neither of which we had any interaction with during the nomad war, and neither of which provide us with any real support any longer.
The Corsairs may have been useful allies early on, when we found ourselves overwhelmed by the nomads - and later the bounty hunter's guild - with no allies in sight. However, recent changes in faction diplomacy have cut off all technology exchange between the groups, and it is a rare circumstance when either one of us sees the other in battle. To further problemize the situation, there is the issue of the dozens of order capital ships which are in use by oblivious corsair players, against the rules at that. It has become tedious trying to hunt down and deal with all of these players, and there are just as many order players using corsair equipment and ships without permission.
The Hogosha alliance in particular makes little sense. We never fight alongside them, they have no interaction with nomads and very little interaction with the wilde, and they offer us no equipment or technology with which to keep the alliance secure.
There is only one thing which these alliances rest on - and that is the artifact trade. It has been brought up numerous times that due to these allegiances, artifacts can be more easily monitored and controlled by the Order. However, any time we try to roleplay this out in-game, by confiscating even a small amount of artifacts from corsair or hogosha smugglers, the response is the same - that we are allies, and that we cannot "pirate" because of that.
So, even if these allegiances were cut, the order would still be more than capable of confiscating artifacts if need be, and without the 'allies' excuse used against us. It only makes sense that we try to re-establish our old allies, whom were pivotal in ending the nomad war of 799-801 A.S., and cast off the allies that we currently have, who are of little use to us.
That brings us to new allegiances - what factions would benefit us most? Personally, I and many others support the return to our traditional allies from the nomad war - the blood dragons and the bundschuh. Zoners are the only allies we have which do not need to change, as there is both cooperative work between the two, as well as technology exchange in both equipment and ships.
Allying with the bundschuh gives us hidden bases throughout rheinland, as well as the assistance of the Bundschuh and Red Hessians when dealing with rheinland wilde. We are already on semi-friendly terms with the Rheinland military, however, and some believe that allying with the bundschuh will only make the situation with the military worse. I do not believe the same - the bundschuh are a political faction, they have some say within the rheinland government, and are not an open pirate or terrorist faction such as the corsairs or hogosha. Similar to our situation with the Hogosha, the bundschuh may even be able to provide an active voice within the rheinland government urging rheinland to help the order, allowing us more freedom of movement throughout the house.
Similarly, allying with the blood dragons provides us an easier path to the sigmas, where we can obtain new resources from the gas miner's guild. The blood dragons also field the only base within the same system as Tekagi's arch - the home of the kusari wild - and can not only provide us docking but also assistance in battle against those enemies, whom they view just as dangerous as we do.
Of course, both of these leave us little in the way of bretonia, but nomad activity is least common in bretonia of the four houses, and we would still have the option of a hidden osiris base there as described previously to maintain a watch on the nomad lair and nomad city within bretonian space.
Topic 4: Keeping the remaining Capships in check
This is likely to be the most controversial of the topics posted here today, but ultimately it is something that needs to be done. The greatest bane of the order right now is the overabundance of 'lolwutter' capital ships - they outnumber factionalized order and 'good' independent players combined, and exist to do nothing more than kill whatever they can with the minimal RP required for their engagements.
Hopefully, ending the BHG war and restricting where such ships can dock will thin most of them out. However, many still believe that even after that, we will need some way to restrict capital ships to those players who have proven they deserve to fly them, and keep them out of the hands of those who dont.
Any time capship restriction comes up on this board, it is a controversial topic that typically descends into flaming one another - so I'll remind you... keep the flames and nonconstructive posts out of this thread, or they will be removed.
Now then; several ideas on 'how' these ships can be restricted have come up. Most of them either put too much stress on the admins, who have other things to do than read 'capship application stories', or simply remove the ability for independent players to obtain the ships after reasonable effort and restraint has been demonstrated.
So far, the suggestion which everyone seems to agree on is this:
-The addition of an item, perhaps a replacement scanner (much like a battleship license) - for the purposes of explanation, this item will be referred to as an "order capship license"
-The "order capship license" is not purchaseable on any dockable base. Instead, a joint 'bank' character is created which all members of Order High Command have access to. This bank is given a number of these licenses by the administration.
-Each time a player requests the purchase of a capship (for the purposes of this discussion, capship is anything of cruiser size or larger - gunboats are still free use for all players), the order high command reviews that player's roleplay - whether it is on the forums or in-game. Not everyone may have good story writing skills or the desire to make exceedingly long forum posts explaining why they should be able to fly a capital ship, which is why we would also take in-game behavior into consideration, in order to determine if a player is responsible and restrained enough to not abuse such a craft.
-If it is agreed upon by the majority of the high command that a player deserves the ship which they are requesting, then the 'bank' character will give that player the "order capship license", and the player will be permitted to purchase the ship they requested. A detailed listing of all permitted players and what ships they were allowed will be kept, so that 'trading' of the license, or changing one's ship after being approved, can be punished.
-Any players who fly an order capital ship either without the license equipped, or fly a capital ship which they were not approved for, may have that ship removed by the admins (deleted or replaced with a fighter) without warning. The order cruiser, carrier, and battleship infocards will be updated to readily state that these ships may not be used without an order capship license, and warning the player of the consequences of purchasing the ship without the license - as well as how the license may be acquired.
Ultimately, the goal is to both restrict the ships from those players who are 'unworthy', while not creating additional workload for the admins by having an alternate group which approves capship applications. The high command consists of 6 players, three of which are in the Order| official faction and three of which are veteran independent players. This setup has, for the past year, worked well in keeping fair decisions by voting amongst one another. Every one of us has a different viewpoint on the order and it's roleplay, and thus we can assess a decision from all angles before a decision is made.
In the end, it's our hope to make the order a more fighter-oriented faction (with all of the above changes), and to keep our few capital ships available for either special RP events, or for circumstances which require a larger craft.
I vote for making Order| a faction with exclusive invite only. I don't care if you have 500 members in the end, make sure every one of those wants to roleplay.
Make capital ships a rarity, force Core BHG to fight you with fighters.
Ignore order indies completely, and form the cells within that main Order.
Put Order characters in every House, make them visible where there are threats of the Nomads. Perhaps an mothership of some sort in every house, make it a corvo cruiser and award those that roleplay within their cell.
Make sure that you limit the cap use to high ranked members, make sure one (stable) person decides who can get them, or get promotion merit based.
Make promotions a valid part of Order Faction, but make sure that the leaders are always outnumbered by alot from "grunts".
Sorry if I sound random, but the fact is that alot of people are in Order because they're in gray area to what order does, but at long as it pvp-s its cool.
Shame to waste a faction like that.
Hmm. Who knows, may be that'll bring back some hope in Discovery for me, to actually play it rather than lurking in a distance. First step is admittance, often the hardest one as well, same goes for myself as well. Because, quite frankly, watching what's going on around has stopped me from doing anything at all and postpone indefinitely whatever has been discussed and supposedly planned to happen. I'd be willing to help from "the other side", so to speak, but have no idea what to do at this point, perhaps when there'll be signs of actual movement into this direction things will get a little clearer.
You don't know how thrilling it would be if we changed to the covert operations method where we had limited capital ships and used the hidden bases. Hell, that would be so awesome I'd give up my Geb for that if I had to. Same goes for the new licensing idea for the capital ships - we're more covert, so we're obviously going to need to restrict Order capital ships - if not restrict the Order faction entirely. In fact, if we move in the new direction of the smaller, covert ops, we should really restrict the Order faction entirely. I know that's unpopular, but imagine the ramifications of having OoRPers and PvP enthusiasts and Lolwutters flying through the houses between secret bases, "looking for Nomads" or just generally "loling around." Now compare that to a group of individuals with good roleplay doing the same thing and carrying out the role of the Order. (Now, getting into the Order shouldn't be like getting into the SCRA or anything like that. One should just be able to roleplay well - with Order| personnel beforehand, likely enough - and then be able to understand the Order's goals and modus operandi.)
As far as alliances go, I'm all for the Blood Dragon / Bundschuh alliances.
Those are vanilla.
Corsair and Hogosha are pretty much the opposite of those vanilla alignments.
I really see no argument to keep the old, barely roleplay alliances. They make no sense.
If you've noticed, all my Order characters already tend toward the traditional Order alliances. They don't like Corsairs... heh, I even have a Blood Dragon on board. An important one in the (past) BD/Order relations... and yes, I've spoken to Equanimitee in some depth about this.
Anyways.
Our alliances can be much looser and more pick-and-choose or even nonexistent if we go for this covert operations method. Everything would be more Vanilla. We'd have hidden bases, have contacts all over Sirius, be smaller, shadowy, etc. We don't really even need any terribly firm alliance systems with this approach, as we'll just be a smaller group that uses its contacts and roots to sustain itself.
Toledo, in the campaign, was a little outpost, hastily erected.
Not much of a base, not much of anything. It was just a glorified camp pitched on the edge of space, a marshalling point around which to coordinate the assault against the Nomads.
The Order, in 801, was really a small and desperate organisation.
I'd love to see its roleplay keep that feeling.
Which is a vanilla feeling.
As is the small, restricted group.
As is the restricted capital ships.
As is the alliances with the BD and Bundschuh.
All of this, yes, yes, a million times yes.
Especially the capship license thing.
Especially the having hidden bases in all of Sirius thing.
Most other factions are groups where you can just go and sign up, IRP. The Order is a group that is only supposed to recruit the best of the best. A return to covert operations is a MUST.
Thanks to MikeyH for the banner.
Reverend Del Wrote:I was going to turn your ship into something that would have been better named "Lada" but I was told to be nice.
' Wrote:Ignore order indies completely, and form the cells within that main Order.
WHAT?!?!
Listen pal I`ll find out what characters your roleplaying and I`m going to ignore you too to see how you feel....jeez THINK before posting such things because I `m an order indie and I GOT OFFENDED.
But still Order will have bounty placed form time to time on its head and Bounty hunters will still try and collect it same as other mercenarys or freelancers. But i hope this wont be so common as Geb in Minor.
Edit:
' Wrote:WHAT?!?!
Listen pal I`ll find out what characters your roleplaying and I`m going to ignore you too to see how you feel....jeez THINK before posting such things because I `m an order indie and I GOT OFFENDED.
Although I understand the changes, and fully support them, I will miss the war.
yes, it was being abused, but some of the best FL moments, for me at least, have been from this war.
but it's your faction, so to sort things out, you have my blessing.
although I do hope that the Order lulwuts don't run to the Core...
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