Idea for a new type of ship

[AceofSpades]

Alright this is a concept I had, I am welcome to all forms of positive and negative feedback.

I've found time and time again that there are only two ways with which to fight a capital ship.. either with small darting bombers, or a bigger capital ship. Gunboats used to sometimes be smaller anti-cap vessels with limited capabilities as such, but now they are no doubt anti-fighter platforms.
In realistic warfare there are two ways to kill a big ol' ship that's got bigger guns, with small darting torpedo bombers (what we have now) that eat away at its health and dart between fire, or with submarines, capable of dealing high fatal damage, yet lacking armor and everything else, counting on an ability to avoid detection.

Now we can't simulate a submarine, we don't do cloaking devices, however there's a class of ship similar to a submarine that I think is a good idea. Others could model it, I cannot, however I can provide an idea of what it would be. The idea behind this ship class, I'm going to call it a Submarine just for kicks because it is exactly like a submarine in design, is similar to our bombers. Its a ship that would be smaller and more agile than large capital ships, yet designed to destroy... however its not like a bomber for other reasons. At heart it is much like a gunboat, but imagine it as a gunboat designed to damage and outmaneuver other capital ships.

First of all there has to be a need, a role. Bombers are useful against capital ships but are vulnerable to fighters. The new Rheinland "Super-Bomber" is a step in the direction of these "Submarines". Heavier vessels designed with more armor, less maneuvering, and more punch. But the submarine is a class of its own, here's how it works.

Imagine a ship much like a gunboat, though likely with lesser armor, and a smaller cargo space, not allowing for larger capital class armor upgrades. However similar in both size and turning ability. Basically so far we have a gunboat with less armor.

Now strip away all of the gunboat turrets. Gunboats are anti-fighter platforms, this ship is the opposite. However the idea is that, like a gunboat, with its slightly higher armor than a bomber, and gunboat class shield slot, it's more vulnerable to bombers than it is really fighters. So now we have a "big bomber" thats weakness is, instead of fighters, other bombers (and in reality as we come to see it, likely some gunboats as well).

Alright, so we have our turretless gunboat, now obviously it has to have the slightest ability to shoot small rounds otherwise it'd fall prey to LF Mk2's and the such. So on the back of our Submarine, much like a real Sub, we put a couple (2 or 3) rear facing turret slots. These shouldn't be able to fire forwards (only really useful in turret mode) and would be Class 5 Turret Slots. In no way would these two or three Class 5 Turrets be able to repulse a bomber, but like a sub it would have the ability to put a small amount of "anti-fighter" fire out there.. enough to keep a fighter from simply pulling up alongside you and raking your shields.

Now the whole point of this vessel, the whole point of a submarine, fixed forward firing knockout blows to larger ships. Right now we have a gunboat size vessel with lesser armor and a few rear mounted Class 5 turrets. In the front of the ship we'd have three (debatable, maybe 2 is better if it seems overpowered) fixed line of fire turrets. These would be forward mounted turret slots with remarkably small firing arcs that face forward. If your staring ahead, maybe about a ten degree firing spread up/down left/right at most (almost exactly like a real submarine). This Submarine would have a powerplant of approximately 200,000, possibly a little less, and the forward turret mounts would be like Cruiser turrets, class 9.

Now STOP. Right now. Before you think anymore stop. Think about a real submarine, a real submarine's purpose, and think about this ship.
-Maneuvers like a GB
-Less armor than a GB, but enough so that bombers and not fighters are its nemesis
-Basically no anti-bomber/fighter capability
-Powerplant enough to fire 2 Light Mortars (roughly the same damage each as a SNAC), draining the whole powerplant. However only able to fire them directly forward. Also worth noting is the idea that maybe people would get creative and shove a Pulse or Missile in as the 3rd turret, but the powerplant only would allow firing two weapons at once

You now have a capital class ship, weaker against bombers than arguably any other capship, but able to deliver knockout blows to other larger caps. Not quite enough armor to afford sitting and taking fire, and not quite the maneuverability of a bomber to dodge incoming fire unless you keep at range. But a unique ability to line up a good shot and cripple a Cruiser or Battleship. Note that this ship wouldn't likely be too useful against gunboats, gunboats would be too quick to avoid the forward fixed turrets.

I think this is a legitimate idea for a "Submarine" class capital ship. It's got a purpose, a weakness, and a unique benefit just like a submarine provides.

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[5:57:11 PM] InfernalTater (Lewis) [Formerly TLI-Inferno]:meanwhile, Aces 'I don't always miss my destinations, but when I do, I'm on the other side of house space.'

Seriously nerf Junkers.

Shoot to Thrill

[Coin]

so, much like a gunship then?

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[AceofSpades]

Very much so except swap its anti-fighter capabilities for anti-capship and strip it of some armor to compensate for its increased powerplant. And make sure the front-mounts are fixed with a small firing arc otherwise its just a miniature ship with cruiser guns instead of a "Submarine" with "forward mounted heavy torpedoes".

I can't imagine it being terribly difficult to model. We could start it with just house militaries, and people could get creative in the modelling designs since the idea is more a "Submarine" with these great "forward guns"

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[5:57:11 PM] InfernalTater (Lewis) [Formerly TLI-Inferno]:meanwhile, Aces 'I don't always miss my destinations, but when I do, I'm on the other side of house space.'

Seriously nerf Junkers.

Shoot to Thrill

[Talbott]

You aren't proposing a submarine, you're proposing a torpedo boat.

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The Austin Clan: George Austin, GMG Paramilitary Ensign; Frank Austin, LPI Recruit Officer

[AceofSpades]

well.... ummm... yes I guess I just like submarines

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[5:57:11 PM] InfernalTater (Lewis) [Formerly TLI-Inferno]:meanwhile, Aces 'I don't always miss my destinations, but when I do, I'm on the other side of house space.'

Seriously nerf Junkers.

Shoot to Thrill

[Coin]

*makes obvious joke*

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A Day in the Life of an NPC | Coin | The Journal of Caius Oakley | Build Your Dream Boat

[AceofSpades]

right, well, in more serious news...

does anybody have some input besides changing the class title from "Submarine" to "Torpedo Boat"

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[5:57:11 PM] InfernalTater (Lewis) [Formerly TLI-Inferno]:meanwhile, Aces 'I don't always miss my destinations, but when I do, I'm on the other side of house space.'

Seriously nerf Junkers.

Shoot to Thrill

[Cris]

What other equipment would it have? Im thinking torpedoes but maybe it would lead to some sort of spamming ship.
Not sure about mines, maybe not too useful


Apart from that the idea is good; it would require lots of test to make sure its balanced but in concept, it sounds good

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[Turkish]

I actually designed one of these a few years ago, back when I got to Disco. So consider that I'd be pleased to see one about.

But its a very tricky balance issue.

'Submarine' and 'Torpedo' Boat both sound very wrong for space. 'Tactical Gunship', or 'Light Corvette'. Something not overly pointed towards the water.

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[sempai17]

I actually designed one of these a few years ago, back when I got to Disco. So consider that I'd be pleased to see one about.

But its a very tricky balance issue.

'Submarine' and 'Torpedo' Boat both sound very wrong for space. 'Tactical Gunship', or 'Light Corvette'. Something not overly pointed towards the water.

Torpedo Frigate would be more appropriate. It would more likely be closely tied to the Gunboat/Gunship classes, just the anti-cap ship. I'm guessing that this new ship proposal (which is something i've thought of myself at one point too.) would be effective against capital ships, as well as having capital ships being it's biggest weakness.

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