' Wrote:I'd play it, but, might wanna just make it a Freelancer mod first, then advance into adding all the jazz we got.
Well either way I'd need someone to convert all the models for me (and tweak them. May also need them hardpointed too, never really done something this in depth, but hell worth a shot and if I run into a brick wall Im sure with all the people here someone will either allready know how, or step up and assist).
' Wrote:Sounds really cool. I loved Armada 2. Add the Tundra as the Nomad special ship:P
Yeah, I plan to add a lot of notables as faction heroes. I did a basic pre-pre-pre-pre-start planning over the past couple of days in notepad as I thought over this (I'll paste it in a sec when I find my thumbdrive, so later on as I write this post lol) and that was one of the things. For the 4 houses, whatever BS name the navy heads use as their flagship gets added as part of the starting ship setup for that race.
For some of the other factions I'm going to have them with a starting SHIP as their starbase (like species 8472 in vanilla A2, for those that have played it). Zoners get the Juggy as the defualy low level station. IMG gets a barge, with larger stations needed to be built to build larger ships (or build another Juggy).
TBH it'll be a LOT like disco insofar as I'll literly just be copy+pasting stats and what not for the most part, however there will be SOME differnce with snubcraft. They wont be over powerd pwnsticks for the most part.
Fighters, in any mod Ive played, only are really useful for a fast strike, as otherwise the AI tends to rape them if you try for more than that.
Now for the incoming wall of text, from my brainstorming notes. Some of this wont make sense unless you've played and/or moded the game before.
Actualy, theres a good chance some of it wont make much sense, simply cause this is primarily intended as notes from myself, to myself.
(((NOTE))) < Notes like that will designate were, as I read thru before posting, I added a note for folks that havent played/moded the game before.
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1- All stats (execpt for speeds, which will have to be balanced to the game) copied directly from the wiki. Shield strength, hull strength, wep power, etc etc. Special energy will simulate the power core. ((( speed wise, its a differnt engine, so speeds will have to be a tad differnt. The same generic speed brackets will be used for whatever speeds I set however, tho I may give LFs a speed advantage. Special energy in the game dictates the various special abilties some ships have, point defence, sheild disruptor, cloak, etc etc. If I make all guns require this, have ships special energy/regen values match their power core, then it'll simulate power cores.)))
2- All ships will use faction guns or, for caps, heavy weps+faction guns.
3- heavy weps set as special weps. Faction guns will use special energy. This way no simulated inf power core ships. Ships will end up, after the first inital salvo, firing a slow stream of shots most likley but that's better than inf core ships and better simulates disco. Hero units get a slightly better core. LOL HAX. AI will not be able to build hero units. ((( by setting them as a special weapon, I mean adding a button to use to select and fire them, tho using the combat settings for the ships you can also let the AI fire your ships heavy weps automaticly ))
4- Cap gun ranges will be increased a tad (evenly across the board) to look better in A2 engine. ((( differnt engine, differnt looks. Unless you choose to view in 3d, it's a top down RTS, so ranges will need to be longer to not look utterly retarded, especily on the larger ships were a solaris or secondary mounted in the rear cant hit a target in the front, not as big of an issue if I go mostly primaries but still an issue since I'll proably add a solaris weapon for those that wish to use an alternete setup )))
4- Speed wise, combat speed will simulate thrusters, warp will simulate cruise (and be not much faster than regular speed, for those that wish to play using warp.) ((( IE: ships automaticly accelerate at certain times, like when on an attack run. I may or may not use this for thrusters as too much work for too little gain. Aside from setting the warp speed (it IS a trek game, so has warp) to be only a tad faster than regular speeds I may not mess with this and assume that people will not use cruise. That or have cruise simulate thrusters. AFAIK it's not possible to disable guns in warp, so may just use warp as thruster, no warp for ships lacking a thruster, for those that wish to use it, and past balance things with no warp.)))
5- Ordanence. ((( gun types ))
Primaries, pulse weapons. ((( in the game you have 3 main ordanence folders for the gun types. Phasers, for beam weps, Pulse for guns that shoot a pulse, and torpedos for torpedos)))
Razor/pulse/LM are non-tracking torpedos with a %chance to hit differnt ship types.
Weapons that in disco are tracking (missles) will be either set as torpedos that track their target or as torpedos with a much higher chance to hit (((not sure if I can set torps to track BUT have a chance to miss. However I'll also be setting the lifespan of the projectile to match the 'range' of the projectile in disco, so if you out run it, it expires )))
Solaris are given a seperate %chance to hit than regular primaries, across the board.
MRs will either not be added at all, or will have a much higher energy cost (inferno to a lesser extent as well) as to prevent massive fighter swarms from being TOO over powerd. Or varriants using them will cost significantly more in resources AND pop cost. ((( that, or add fighter varriants with them, but not set the AI to build them )))
Hero units get special versions with slightly better %chance to hit. ((( if it's a hero ship, it's more likley to hit basicly)))
Also, for cruiser foward guns, I'm not quite sure how I'll be adding them ingame. Theres a good chance I may need the projectile converted. That or I'll just add large white pulse with adjusted speeds and chance to hit on various sized targets.
6- Brainstorming for 'hero' units.
-- Larger capital ships will get the ability to build a limited selection of fighters. Maybe. I've done this before, but have had limited success for some reason. It is doable however, in teh vanilla game one of the races base was also a ship. If nothing else, I'll just take the .odf for that (((.odf is the ship/station config file format))) and use it as a template.
-- Carriers will be able to, prehaps, build bombers. ((( if I add them, it'll proably be soemthing only players build, the AI wont, so as to prevent AI bomber swarms from raeping a base)))
I'm adding some of my chars, notable or not, as hero units. Cause if Im makin this, may as well. (((hey, I'm doing this, I may as well make it fun for ME:P)))
- Freeport 13. Pretty much identical to other Zoner Juggys. Starting unit, is the Zoner Starting base ((( basicly, the starting base for the Zoners is mobile, only builds smaller stuff and basic construction ship, you'll have to build larger stations to build larger stuff))
- The Hinaichago.(Zoner Argus. Only Argus outside of IMG/CR with premession from IMG). Will be a special zoner scout craft with long range scanners.
- LNS Leyte Gulf. Slightly extra range on main gun and LM.
-Flagships for each of the houses, using same name as their actual flagship. Also add notable ships. Status as faction or indie is irrelvent, this is for the community ((( I'm adding offical faction flagships for the RP reasons, past that, I dont care who you are, it depends if you're notable or not. )))
-Finnigens wake. Only junker cap ship. Will proably make a junker starting unit, so as to limit to one. ((( IE: you cant build it, you loose the one you started with, you're hosed. However junkers wont be done to start with most likley, so just an idea for now)))
-LNS Tundra. Same basic stats as the gulf, however will utilize nomad turrets (((once this gets further along, PM me your loadout Zapp)))
-Med Force One. ((( same as with Zapp, once this gets further along Doc PMs me the loadout he wants.))) Will re-use the vanilla repair ability for the nebula class for MF1 ((( the repair ability basicly just repairs all systems, brings shields to 50%. I'll proably have it set to nuke the power plant as way to balance it, IE: cant be used that often)))
Some heros will also be starting units, mostly flagships. This will give a good starting defence as well. However they'll also not be buildable, so you loose them theyre gone.
7- Starbases (IE: station you start with).
Primary houses: A carrier or a battleship (IE: mobile starbase, like species 8472 in vanilla A2). Will build basic ships.
Corsair/OC/House-pirates: Astroid base (prehaps use an enlarged version of a preexisting A2 or A2 mod I possess model, however as that would likley look fugly, a FL astroid base model would work too.)
Zoners: Juggy or Aquillion. Aquillion builds heavier fighters, and basic construction ships. Juggy builds less heavy fighters, but a more broad array of items.
IMG: Start with a Barge, however they get better mining ships and can gather resources faster.
GMG: Proably a barge as well. May use one of their rhinland BSs instead.
8- Shipyards. they will build basicly all ships. If I can figure out how, create a multi podded station, otherwise have shipyards have a single docking slip (((it's doable, some mods have done it, but is a real pain to reverse enginer if you're a crap coder like me)))
9- research stations. Astroid base of some sort OR a science ship (IF possible to have a research station be mobile). In the game, you can purchase gun/shield/speed/sensorfesupport(loose less crew when shot, ship repairs faster) upgrades. IF I add these in, I'll try to simulate the various kit addons buyable ingame as much as possible. Otherwise, no research, stats dont improve.
Sensor upgrades:
Basic (No research)
Adv Cargo Scanner (1st level)
Endeavour (2nd level)
Discovery (3rd Level)
Battleship Lisence (4th, final, level) (yes, easter egg naming. Possibly change the name. Or just outright remove it from most factions, have it be 'Spyglass tech based scanners' avalible to LH/LN/Order and science ships)
Armor upgrades:
Proably will replace with the life support systems upgrade, since no armor upgrade in A2 that I know of, and just call it an armor upgrade, and add to the description 'while these upgrades are costly and dont really prevent damage, they are good at keeping crew casulties down, allowing quicker repairs'.
Wep upgrades: Add to the description at various levels upgrading from one type of faction gun to another. (wont really change gun, just a creative decision for immersion)
Engine upgrades: Thruster types and cruise engine enhancements. (once gain, wording of the description is for immersive purposes)
10- Special abilties: To be added to as thought of.
Order recon cruiser: ability to, at the expense of power core, massivley expand line of sight, prehaps even detect cloaked ships (IE: Nomies). If possible, add a view targeted area skill, however dunno if thats possible (IE: cant remember if Ive seen that done before).
Cruise Disruptor. Basicly, generates a temp gravity well around the targeted object. Not really nessacary unless the person plays with warp (cruise) enabled. May not even bother to add, as the only grav well generators Ive seen in a mod to prevent warp also disabled the engines of the ship using them.
11- Mining ship(s). The hegemon will be the mobile collection point/refinery. Smaller mining ships will keep it busy. Hegemon will be decently kitted (cap8 hegemon stats, as the base stat for this ship, prehaps. Give all of its guns a 360 arc. Possibly also give it no special energy or a massive regen rate, so it chainfires like mad. Makes attacking a mining 'base' a tad more dangerous.)
12- Guns
Bombers: Possibly ditch SNAC for NOVA, or have both as options for varriants. SNAC should be innacurate compared to the nova. That or do the special energy differnt for bombers (IE: have SNAC use a lot less, but have a MUCH lower rate of fire.) Key here is balance, as in this you could easily get a bomber swarm to make Del green with envy. ((( what Im thinkin of now is to ditch the SNAC, add the NOVA, make it a special weapon complete with a fire button, so that normaly it doesnt use them, until you click to use it. Prehaps also have it function as arty, too)))
Cap guns, execpt for foward guns, will be 360 arcs.
Transports that get used will have 360 arcs on all guns as well.
13- colony ship: A factionalized freighter or transport.
14- Mining stations: decent defenseve guns. Heavy capitals will still obliterate these without too much difficulity.
15- Gallia/nomads: IF I add gallia, their units will all cost more, due to their unbalanced nature. Nomads will always cost more and/or have higher pop costs per unit, due to their over powerd nature. But they'll also have cloak, which noone else has.
16- Capturing: Factions will use either a house freighter combat version (IE: Grizley) and/or armored transports for capturing ships. Transporters will have a VERY short range (IE:point blank). Only stations and faction combat transports will have transporters. Pirate factions will have a few extra ships able to do this, such as possibly the PTrans.
17- Ship chance to hit on other ships. No numbers as of yet, a semi rock paper scisors setup will be done for the numbers.
All ships have high odds of hitting their own class of ship. Heros get all around better odds.
-heavy BSs-
highest chance: bases. heavy caps. Transpots.
Very high chance: Light BSs
medium chance: Cruisers, BCs (BCs will be slightly more open to being hit)
moderate chance: Gunboats
Low chance: fighters
-Light BSs-
highest chance: bases. heavy caps. Transpots. Heavy caps
Very high chance: Light BSs
medium chance: Cruisers, BCs (BCs will be slightly more open to being hit)
moderate chance: Gunboats
Low chance: fighters
-BCs-
highest chance: bases. heavy caps. Transpots. Light BSs (light BS will have slightly lower chance by a few %)
Very high chance: BCs, cruisers
medium chance: GBs
moderate chance: bombers
Low chance: fighters
-Cruisers-
highest chance: bases. all BSs. Transpots.
Very high chance: BCs, cruisers, GBs
medium chance: bombers
moderate chance: fighters
Low chance: light fighters
-GBs-
highest chance: Anything bigger than them.
medium chance: GBs, bombers
moderate chance: fighters
Low chance: Nothing
-bombers-
Highest chance: all BSs
very high chance: BCs
Medium chance: Cruisers
Moderate chance: GBs
Low chance: Bombers, fighters.
-Fighters-
Higehst chance: Everything but fighters
Medium chance: Everything not mentiond elsewere
Moderate chance: light fighters
-Transports/stations-
High chance: Anything big
Medium cahnce: GBs
Lower chance: anything small/fast
Jumpgate: I may add a jumpgate station that can be built. It'll provide factionalized ships at a MUCH lower price (IE: reinforcements from home). For those that've played vanilla A2 before, the 8472 station that builds their heavies. Same thing, just using a gate model.
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Ok a few notes, if I do find someone to convert the models, hitpoint them, etc etc, into the format for A2, I'll proably start with just the 4 main houses and nomies.
RP wise, the story will be there was some stellar phenomena in a border world that spawned a lotta random JHs to an unknown area of space within Sirius rich in resources. These JHs start to destabilize as soon as a ship goes thru, so if anything with size goes thru it collapeses too quck to return, forcing the group to send a large expedition with mobile construction craft thru, to setup and build a JG on the other side to re-establish quick contact with their house, get reinforcements if needed, and send info and resources back home for profit.
Yes, only Ageria builds gates, however the other houses reverse enginerd and/or stole the plans (so nyah bob:P).
If I get this far along, I'll proably want (and be able to get) customized house/faction JGs rigged up. (Imagine the Kusari one being made to look like a flower, and blooming open when in use:P)
As for resources, still havent decided 100%, but I may alter somewhat from the vanilla approach.
In Vanilla A2, you have three main resources and one specialized type for species 8472 (trek race that uses bio ships like the nomies. The nomies will be heavily based on their vanilla stuff actualy).
I plan to use all of them.
Dilithium, the 'main' resource, mined from moons. (I'll proably just replace the moon with a more astroid looking model, and call them ore rich astroids). These ores will be your primary resource, as the bigger the ship is, the more of this it will need. Ship cost will proably be based off it's hull stat.
Metal, the 'secondary' resource in vanilla. In vanilla you build a station that orbits a planet that extracts it (and/or just coordinates the removal from planetside mines).
Latinum. The trek version of gold or platnum. In Vanilla comes in the form of a small yellow nebula.
Bio-matter, organic race I mentiond uses this as their only resource in vanilla, and it can be extracted from any resource point basicly.
Heres how I plan to do the resources
Dilithium moons: I'll have them act as mining fields. You send out a a hegemon and smaller mining ships, and suck them dry for ores to build stuff with.
Metal: Not sure how much planetry mining I will do. I may just replace these stations with the model for dockign rings, have them add a small steady trickle to you're 'ore' stockpiles, thru allowing your colony to ship mined stuff offworld easier.
Latinum: I'll rename this HFuel. If possible, recolor the nebulas to be more blueish (and also if possible, make them a tad bigger). You need to fuel a ship after you build it to use it. Ships will require less of this, but will require some. Since most of the maps I have seen dont have TOO much of this (unless you set all resource points to be infinite) I may make the requirements for this much lower .
Biomatter: I'll proably just use this if/when I add the nomies ingame as their only resource.
As for the nomies, they'll praobly end up working a LOT like vanilla 8472.
You'll start with a single Marduk, and a few morphs.
Marduks build Morphs.
Morphs can be upgraded (IE: just like vanilla 8472 ships have the 'evolve' button to self build into a larger ship) along the attack or support role.
Support
Mining ship, resource gather point, research station/ships, etc etc.
Attack, Morp's will upgrade into Labraid's, into Sascya's (assasian), into Adad's (bombers), into Nammu's (gunboats), into Irra's (cruiser), into the Marduk.
Only the Marduk's can build new morphs, so as long as a nomad player has one living Marduk or morph (and the resources to build the stuff) he can rebuild himself.
' Wrote:Although it might be more fun to make it for Empire at War or Sins of Solar Empire at some point.
True, however EaW kinda sucks w/o VERY extenseve modding. (however done as a RTS with HUGE maps it would have rocked, still could for that matter). Sins was nice, but really lacks much depth.
Of course, I have zero moding experince with those two as well.
Actualy EaW would be REALLY good for it, the problem of course being each system would have to be made to match the ingame geography of the system, and give it some realistic scaling as well (and proably would also need the Tradelanes to be listed as 'innactive due to combat ongoing')
Yeah the difference of planet - space combat would be much obvious. EaW is made up fro space combat, tho the space could be made into a planet like surroundings for some fun. Could finally meet the needed criteria for each ship to have a role and usefulness
' Wrote:Yeah the difference of planet - space combat would be much obvious. EaW is made up fro space combat, tho the space could be made into a planet like surroundings for some fun. Could finally meet the needed criteria for each ship to have a role and usefulness
Well for EaW we'd have to disable ground combat proably, but no real problem there.
Of course we would also have to decide s tuff like use the SNAC or not, due to poor balance ESPECILY in a RTS