I tryed to give my opinion about bombers, battleships and ballance, but some people asked me to stop sending posts on many old topics, and asked to make my own topic, so here it go.
Some people say that bombers can pwn capitals to easy, that escort are useless, that capitals are sitting targets.
Others say that bomber is ballanced, that it is good as it is, and that it all base on skills.
You all are right.
So lets me put this topic about why bomber is still not perfect for everyone, what make him to good.
Well, first of all, 1 bomber not can defeat capital ship, if 1 bomber will try to fight gunboat, cruizer or battleship, he will end destroyed, but whats problem is this, he just escape with 80 - 200 speed.
But if there are 3 - 4 bombers working as team, who will stop tham, nothink, they will tear up even 6 capital ships 1 by 1 with they SANC hitting just 1 target and nothink will stop tham, no escort, not capitals firepower.
On one side, bomber is good, he is unable to beat fighter in 1 vs 1 battle, or even 3 vs 1 battle, he can do it, but he need alot of luck to hit him with SANC, still, skilled bomber pilot, or just pure luck alow bomber to KO fighter.
Bombers guns are good, too slow to hit small fighters or bomber, but strong enogh to beat capital ship, still, bomber have fighter speed, is not big, and his agility is high enogh to try to KO fighter.
But they clue is that, bomber not aim fighters, he aim capital ships, hitting battleship or cruizer with SANC is save and easy 1.5 range, or use nova torpedoes.
It make Battleships and cruizer easy targets ( but it is good since bomber should be anti capital ).
But the real problem show up when Battleship or cruizer use escort, in any logic sense escort ( fighters, gunboats ), should be efective in protecting cap. from bombers, and here is problem, they are not.
When 3 bombers aim 1 battleship or cruizer, they just go, shot SANC, or torpedoe, next start dodging, dodging, dodging as long as they not recharge for next shot.
So fighters and gunboat escort not can shot bombers in time to save capital ship, not can stop bomber from shoting SANC or torpedoe, not can shot down escaping bomber when he finish off capital ship.
So what I m saying is that, bombers are good again capital ships, they guns are good again capital ships and bad again fighters ( it is like it should be ), but problem is that, they are to small and too agile for escort.
Gunboats and fighters can try they best to stop bombers but never save cap. before it is too late.
What is my solution, it is that, Bombers should keep harder armor what they have now, or even have harder, they should keep high number of nanos and shield battery, they should keep guns, they should keep they 80 - 200 speed, they should even have twice stronger shield than shield they have now, but -
they should be big like freighters or almost big as freighters, and have less agility.
With this solution, bombers will not change much, they will keep they anti capital fighting advance, but they will become easter target for fighters and gunboats, thanks this escort will finaly be able to do they job.
As for fighters, they should have 20% damage decrese but in exchange 50% gun speed increse so they would be able better to take other bombers and fighter down and little worse in blowing up capital ships.
I mean, fighters vs bombers fight can take alot time, but if many fighters gang up on 1 capital, they not even need bombers to finish it off.
But about fighters, it is just side, note, the clue is that bombers should stay as they are and keep they anti capital fighting ability, but be alot easter target for fighters and gunboats escorting tham.
Now for everyone who after reading it and want to put thinks like: skilled capital ship user can beat many bombers, or skiller fighter can beat bomber, to those I say, even the most skilled fighter and gunboat users are unable to stop many bombers from finishing off capital ship and escape.
If you agree with my idea, not agree with my idea, or have better idea for bombers, go ahead and tell.
the main problem with escorts is that it combines long periods of dullness and waiting ( or passive RP, which is not dull ) - and short periods of excitement.
in essence - nothing is wrong with the concept NOR the balance at the moment. when a battleship KNOWS it goes into battle - escorts are not too hard to find.
when a battleship is just "played" cause the player feels like RPing a large ship ( which is just as legit as anything else ) - escorts would need to fly in formation with the battleship - and in the worst case - nothing happens for hours.
so - what is needed is distraction, excitement for the escorts, too - even in times without enemies. - after all... the battleship captain is a captain
he is not there to entertain his escorts to they don t log out out of boredom.
so - the balance between escorts + capital warship vs. attackers does indeed work - but when you pick up escorts - and tell them, "i don t know if we get attacked, but just stick around me" - they ll become really ichty after some 15 minutes - and start fidgeting around. - patience is not why you log on...
Right now, when there is battleship with fleet fighting other fleet, it is fast battle, but exciting.
Fighters vs Fighters fight can be very long and get boring, but is still exciting sometime.
In fight between fleets number and strategy is clue to victory.
In fight between fighters pilot skills are clue to victory.
However once capital ships meet fighters and bombers, it get confused.
Fighters/bombers jump on battleship only if they got advantage, battleship or other capital need to ignore tham or escape before it is too late.
If capital ship enter fighter dog fight, all fighters on enemy side jump on him because he is easter target.
But fighter can jump in capital dog fight anytime, he will be ignored because shoting to him is waste of time.
Now one side need to gather bombers to take out capital ship faster, but group of fighters can take out capital ships without bomber help, on other hand, even group of fighter not can take out 1 fighter if he keep dodging.
If group of bomber keep hitting capital ship 1 by 1 is easy, no matter do they have escort or not, outcome is this same.
Now what would change this.
First bomber need to be hammer again capital ship, just like they are now, bomber anti capital ship ability are good as they are now, this part is good.
Gunboats should be hammer again bombers, it is true that gunboat can hit and even damage bomber, but bomber just keep dodging and attack target or escape with low damage, bomber should be bigger and less agile targets so gunboats would damage tham badly, and fighters would get on they tail and drain they hull down.
As gunboats are to slow to follow bomber or intercept bombers, fighters should do it, so fighters should be weaker hammer again bombers than gunboats are, but they should be able to drain him longer and not let him escape ( fighter guns need less damage but alot highter speed, because they can attack bomber realy realy long and he will escape anyway ),
As for capitals, they should be hammer again gunboats and other capitals, and hard target for fighter.
So here is how it looks:
Bombers are not afraid of fighters and gunboats, they just attack capitals ignoring tham, and after fight is over, they run away.
Fighters in high number can pwn everythink, but not other fighters if they dodge.
Capital ships are realy afraid of group of bombers.
My only idea is to decrese damage of fighter guns, but increse they speed alot ( so they get stronger again enemy bombers and fighters, but weaker again capital ships, it is how it should be ).
Increse bomber shield power, but make him bigger and less agile ( so that fighters and gunboats would drain his hull down realy fast stoping him from pwn battleships and cruizers ).
Bomber armor and set up is good, they just dodge fighters and gunboats attack to well.
As for me: I use navy gunboat, I fell very useless when it come to fight many fighters or protect other capital ships from bombers, but I fell overpowered when I fight battleship.
I will accept making battleship better again fighters, and gunboats, I will also accept cruizers to beat me up even more, but I will accept it only if I will be able to be better anti fighter and anti bomber escort, and to do it, bombers need to be bigger and fighters need to have more fast but little weaker guns.
I realy not want to make my favorite class stronger, just looking for better balance.
Escort of capital ships isnt big problem. The main problem is, that Escort also fails when you're trying to protect trader. Considering that bomber can survive long, it has enough time to destroy transport.
Somehow its the same as with the capital ships and their escorts.
I tried to convince developers, to increase fighter gun's projectile speed. Instead of that, developers added special weapons for bombers...
So i dont know anymore, its pretty useless to whine about bombers pwning capital ship.
I'd recommend making LF interceptor class fighter (Good against bomber, weak against other fighters) by increasing projectile speed, only for LFs though.
Carnage itself flying within void... Proud cardihead ever since 2008...
You all gonna eat cardi!
Yes, it is true, bombers just need to be bigger and less agile so escort ( gunboats, fighters ) would take tham out before they finish off traders and capital ship.
They suviver so long because they are too agile and too small.
Everythink esle is fine.
As for fighters, it is very weird, I mean, fighter ( it is unit to fight off small opponents like enemy fighters and bombers, but should be weak in fight again heavy class opponents ), I mean, F16 can shot down bomber or other F16 with missile or sometime guns, but no one send fighters to use guns on battleships and cruizers.
In here, many fighters can spend hour shoting to 1 skilled fighter pilot and keep missilng, but if 3 - 4 VHF gang up on 1 capital ship they finish it off in no time.
Why fighters not can hit bombers or fighters, because fighters guns are too slow, they do good damage, but are to slow.
How fighter can take out enemy fighter or bomber with so slow guns, when it is alot more simple to team up with other fighters on 1 capital ship.
Now a pointless idea what just got to my head: hull defense for ships, if heavy ship would have defense, weak guns would take out shield, but will be useless to do damage to ship.
For example, VHF defense 40, all guns damage would go down by 40.
Bomber defense 100, fighter would have no trouble to damage bomber ( if he would be bigger and less agile ).
Gunboat defense 400, it mean all shot damage would by 400 weaker, so to put good damage on gunboat, you will need to use mini razor, battle razor, or cruizer and battleship guns.
Cruizer defense 1000, it mean that you can damage cruizer with heavy guns, but not with fighter guns.
Battleship defense 4000,
I know, I know, it is bad idea, but it is just somehtink what I just though about, just ignore it.
Like I said in beggining, making bombers bigger and less agile and putting stronger shield on tham, and also making fighter guns alot faster but little weaker would solve problem, it is the only idea I come out with.
There should also be somethink what will make battleship and cruizer better agian gunboats, but it is not for this topic.
I am gonna be quick..as I read only your first post.
If you make bombers slower everybody will buy a gunboat.
Then you will have to do something with a gunboat, because gunboat will be able to kill fighter, bombers, and 2 skillful gunboats will kill capitals...problem again.
Try to load your fighter with all missiles then you will see how bomber is not focusing on your capital any more
Finding ballance is not easy, anyway gunboat speed is 80 - 150, fighter and bomber speed is 80 - 200
I not want overpower gunboat.
I just want to make gunboat and fighter escort protect capital ships and traders from bombers, for now, no escort can stop bombers.
I also said, gunboat is overpowered again battleship because of they dodging ability, but weak again many VHF, I even saw video where 1 fighter solo gunboat.
I just want to make VHF guns little weaker but alot faster, so they will be good again VHF and bombers ( as they should be ),
Making bomber bigger and less agile but with freighter shield, bomber will not lose his anti capital skills, but escort will finaly be able to protect capital ship or even traders.
I would also accept if gunboats would be easter targets for cruizer or battleship, as long as they can be better anti bomber escort.
Meaby ballance I come out with is not perfect, but more logic than this what is now.
' Wrote:I just want to make VHF guns little weaker but alot faster, so they will be good again VHF and bombers ( as they should be ),
You have a guns with 8.33 refire..weak and fast. People don't like to use it, once upon time we had even 16 refire rate, but I think it made problems to the mod/server.
I like to leave Balance of mod to mod developers... I suggest you do the same, believe me we read and discussed this subject around 500 times...it's not up to us