It's come up in the dev discussions that the Outcasts, despite their size, as a faction still use the Borderworld shipline for their snubs (they do have their own capital ship line). A question thus, to the Outcasts, specifically to the official faction: Do you guys need your own snubline? And by that I mean: Light fighter/interceptor, Heavy fighter, Very heavy fighter and Bomber. Not sure if you feel to also need a freighter and transport, but those would be lower priority (seeing as the BWT and pirate train, along with the Pilgrim liner, fill that role well)
If you need snubs, get in touch, give a general desire of what looks and stats you are after - EG light bomber, heavy bomber... general role of the snubs so the models can accomodate that. If not, just let us know so we can put that to bed.
Wide awake in a world that sleeps, enduring thoughts, enduring scenes. The knowledge of what is yet to come.
From a time when all seems lost, from a dead man to a world, without restraint, unafraid and free.
Mostly retired Discovery member. May still visit from time to time.
<strike>Wait, it really took you that long to realize it?</strike>
Excuse me, but I just had to after this has already come up multiple times in the past;)
Well, I'm not 100% sure on it, but I think the consensus was that they outcasts would indeed like to have an own shipline (speaking from what I think I can remember from the overall voiced opinions of outcast players, not only officials).
However, given the design of the capital ships (including the new dread) the overall layout should be pretty close to the BW-line.
As for stats: generally more agility-oriented than armour/powercore. That's what outcast players are used to and most people hate radical changes.
Just what came to my mind right now, going to bump it into the faction chat now, I guess details will be talked over on skype in the end anyways.
' Wrote:Go play the game, within the given limitations. That is how role play games are played. Not by trying to work around those limitations or whining about them.
Yes... if anything, our ships would be focused more on agility rather than armour and great powercores. Though I would be content with the ships simply having cloned stats of the current borderworld shipline if it comes down to it (kind of like how the RoS ships are).
One compromise I feel could be made is the removal of the forward-facing turret, which means that the designs can be "inspired" by the current borderworld shipline without being straight-off clones of the current models, and it would most likely make some of the people who consider the forward-facing turret of the ships as a huge advantage think otherwise.
All in all, we'll have to discuss this in the council-like chat if one is ever made... and failing that I'll talk it over with the involved parties in personal conversations as to create the best result not only for the 101st, but for all Outcasts.
But yeah, I'm thankful for this gesture. I've always felt that the Outcasts were rushed in the development of Freelancer, and thus were never given their own ships. Thank you. I mean that.
I looked through some old models I once played with - The basic fighter shape resembles the Dagger. I slapped some Borderworld textures on it to see how they looked and the result was... well, look for yourself. Note that these are by no means finished, but... an indication of what I can offer. These are based on models from another game, "Nexus - The Jupiter Incident", but have been significantly modified from their original design (no straight imports, I know the directive).
I've linked the images to prevent screen stretching.
The light fighters wing edges need work. There's a convenient portrusion between the dual engines at the rear where the thruster and CM could be hardpointed. A disruptor mount at the bottom, two guns at the shoulders, and two at the wingtips could make this a fairly standard light fighter, resembling the Dagger.
The addition of the flanks can extend the amount of gun mounts. I'd advise 4 guns and an extra CD/FT slot (for both CD and FT ability, much like the Corsair Gladiator), and a rear firing turret with a 180 degree aft arc. This gives the Outcasts access to a ship that can be used for piracy with a cruise disruptor, but can also mount their signature fighter anti-shield torpedo.
The bottom fin further extends the arament, at the expense of the bottom TCD slot, so only a single CD/FT on this one. But it sports the usual 6 gunslots (2 class 9 on the shoulders, 2 class 10 on the side fins, and 2 class 10 at the bottom fin, along with the rearfiring turret.
This is a seperate design, and I'm not entirely sure how much I like how it turned out. Engine needs work. It has the looks of a heavy bomber, which contradicts your request for agility.
These are all just ideas which I'm offering. Please voice your opinions.
[Edit] As for time realising. I haven't been on the dev team that long.:P
Wide awake in a world that sleeps, enduring thoughts, enduring scenes. The knowledge of what is yet to come.
From a time when all seems lost, from a dead man to a world, without restraint, unafraid and free.
Mostly retired Discovery member. May still visit from time to time.
' Wrote:I looked through some old models I once played with - The basic fighter shape resembles the Dagger. I slapped some Borderworld textures on it to see how they looked and the result was... well, look for yourself. Note that these are by no means finished, but... an indication of what I can offer. These are based on models from another game, "Nexus - The Jupiter Incident", but have been significantly modified from their original design (no straight imports, I know the directive).
I've linked the images to prevent screen stretching.
The light fighters wing edges need work. There's a convenient portrusion between the dual engines at the rear where the thruster and CM could be hardpointed. A disruptor mount at the bottom, two guns at the shoulders, and two at the wingtips could make this a fairly standard light fighter, resembling the Dagger.
I think it looks a little too much like the Hacker Gunboat... and kind of bulky, which contradicts the agility of the ship a bit.
The addition of the flanks can extend the amount of gun mounts. I'd advise 4 guns and an extra CD/FT slot (for both CD and FT ability, much like the Corsair Gladiator), and a rear firing turret with a 180 degree aft arc. This gives the Outcasts access to a ship that can be used for piracy with a cruise disruptor, but can also mount their signature fighter anti-shield torpedo.
Again... it looks like the Hacker line. I like your idea of creating a ship which is akin to the Gladiator however, since that is something the Outcasts truly lacks..
The bottom fin further extends the arament, at the expense of the bottom TCD slot, so only a single CD/FT on this one. But it sports the usual 6 gunslots (2 class 9 on the shoulders, 2 class 10 on the side fins, and 2 class 10 at the bottom fin, along with the rearfiring turret.
Okay, this concept I can dig. It looks like a natural evolution of the Sabre... though the undercarriage looks to be a bit on the heavy side. Perhaps you could make it look a bit more like the one on the Sabre?
This is a seperate design, and I'm not entirely sure how much I like how it turned out. Engine needs work. It has the looks of a heavy bomber, which contradicts your request for agility.
These are all just ideas which I'm offering. Please voice your opinions.
I believe that for the most part, all we need are certain Maltese doo-dads added to the original design of the Light fighter, the Scimitar, much like the RoS fighters will be...
The heavy fighter and VHF are different stories though. I believe that the concept of a Gladiator-like HF on the Outcast side would even out things a bit, and add a bit of tactical flexibility as well... but as I said: The model is too much alike that of the Hacker line, so you might wish to think of a less radical design, and follow the old "flow" of the Switchblade... and hell, you might even get away with making it look like a Gladiator that has been... "borderworldfied"? It's only natural that the Outcasts would steal the design / come up with a counter eventually, and if it looks like a Gladiator, the ship itself could use the cloned stats of the real Gladiator so we don't get another boring discussion about balance.
What I said about the light fighter pretty much applies to the Bomber. You could contact Ashes and see if you can get her model to play around with, and add a little Maltese-looking doo-dads to it.
(Note: Making the standard ship seem more Maltese would basically involve adding an additional engine, a Maltese cross and a slightly darker colour scheme... and maybe turning the cockpit solid orange would be an option because of the Cardamine present within the air supply.
I hope this was constructive feedback.
(Note: My opinions are not the only ones that matter here, so if you've been an Outcast for a long time, then please feel free to post.)
I think your drafts still look too much like the Borderworld design...
And I think the OC should have various ships within the same class, at least a light and a heavier one. They are absolute Aces, especially with their drug and thus need customization.
As an Outcast Indy I'd love to see their own shipline. And I think it is inRP it is just as plausible as the Corsairs having one:
1. They are tied with the Corsairs in being the biggest, most powerful unlawfuls in Sirius
2. They make very much money with Cardiamine smuggling, I'd reckon more than Corsairs with their Artifacts.
3. The Taus are rich in Ressources
4. They are already capable of building Capitals
I mean, so many smaller factions have their own line, like the Hessians and the GC.
Oh and I also think they should get their own transporter, they are basically a faction of drug-smugglers.
I like your HF concept idea, asin the 4 guns, a MR and a CD slot, just like the corsair gladiator, but I don't like the modals you have come up with. They look rather cool, but as ships for the outcast line I'd prefure something that looks less of the hacker line.
Also, I'd personally like to see a lighter bomber, rather than a heavy one.
Edit: Also, I have to ask, Why does anyone bother fitting a "rear fireing" turret on fighters? It's allways confused me. This isan't a personal dig or anything, I am genuinely interested to know.
The third model reminds me of a ship I have very fond memories of, the Banshee from Wing Commander 4 Banshee , ironically also a 'Borderworld ship' in the afromentioned game :)never the less, I like it a lot.
Allright, I'll see what I can come up with. Bit of tweaking and resizing might help the design a bit. If it's too bulky the main hull can be squashed a bit I'll also pull the textures from some of the OC capital lines to make the appearance less Borderworld-y.
As for the rear firing turret? Sometimes the arc will work for extremely tight turning battles. But yea, generally it is a useless gimmick. Could be omitted entirely, or replaced with something forward facing that's not as intense (a class 8 gun on the nose/bottom or so?). Really up to the balancing team that, and not so much to me - I just make sure there's space for the hardpoints we might want to place.
As for balancing the dualtorpedo suggestion: You have a distinct advantage with that design that you can outfit it with the shieldbuster torpedo weapon. A discussion about it in the IMG chat suggested this might end up overpowered in fights against gunboats or capital ships, or even transports. I hadn't considered that. But again, thankfully - it's not my decision to make:)it's just an option I can offer.
To summarise the current constructive criticism:
- Designs too bulky. Hulls should be slimmed down.
- Design looks too much like the Lanehacker line.
- Cockpit solid orange (I'd personally go with an orange alpha - gives it a bit of an orange "glow" but still be see-through)
- Maltan "doodads" need adding. Maltan cross should be on the hull somewhere
- Suggestion is to retexture the original Borderworld designs, and add Maltan emblems to them
I must say I'm not entirely in favor of reusing the existing Borderworlds designs, even though it would be easy as hell to do. OC deserve something unique, just like any major faction.
Wide awake in a world that sleeps, enduring thoughts, enduring scenes. The knowledge of what is yet to come.
From a time when all seems lost, from a dead man to a world, without restraint, unafraid and free.
Mostly retired Discovery member. May still visit from time to time.
I honestly think the Outcasts just need retextured BW ships.
Scimitar, Switchblade, Sabre and the new Falcata model, but all with the maltese cross banged into it, enough so that they look seperate than the regular BW ships.
No new drastic changes needed.
Then perhaps they can have their own altered stats depending on what the Outcasts want to have, without altering any of the existing BW ships.
This also means the OC caps will match the OC snubs, as the OC caps are already pretty much just BW caps.
You dig?
' Wrote:- Suggestion is to retexture the original Borderworld designs, and add Maltan emblems to them
Ninja'd.
I think it's important that the Outcast Snubs look shockingly like the BW ships, but distinct enough to be seperate. As the OC Capitals are modelled after the BW shipline, changing the OC Snubs will make the Caps look stupid.
So it's important to make the Outcast Snubs all look like the BW line, but stand out enough to be their own shipline. The orange cockpit is a great idea, and perhaps adding some subtle patchs of paint to the ol' BW line to make the OC Snubs look uniform would work well.
' Wrote:OC deserve something unique, just like any major faction.
As nice a sentiment as this is, I don't think it quite works here, as the OC Caps are already looking all BW, making a totally new Snubline would invalidate them and make the Outcasts look silly.
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