So a few days ago I was in Sigma-13 and was headed for Sigma-17 I think. I was a BH and I needed to get to a base to dock before I logged out. I did not want to fight.
Anyway a Corsair i think began urging me in system chat to fight. I just kept heading to the JH. It was about 20k from me.
He shot me out of cruise but I was able to thrust away to 2k. We kept this up for a while. Using thrust to fly and keeping the 2k distance.
Then he must of hit cruise cause he got to within range of me while we were on a straight away and started firing.
Eventually I got to the base and docked. I then undocked just so he could kill me.:)my ship was lightly armed and I didnt mind fighting I just didnt want to die and wind back in some far away system.
So when he used cruise to catch up to me when we were just thrusting I thought nothing of it since I was obviously running from him.
However, I had stated these feelings in another thread and was PM'd by someone I respect that my interpretation is not correct. That what the Corsair did was against the rules and sanctionable. I'm not naming the player nor am I looking for anyone to get in trouble. I'm a mellow guy. I just want a little clarification so I do not give the wrong advise to someone else....and so I know this is against the rules..otherwise...I'd do it if I had been in the same situation and the roles had been reversed.
I would say that at no point in that chase were you engaged in a firefight, from your description at least, (the CD thing being part of the chase), if that's the case then no rules were broken. The rules state that shooting constitutes an attack when shields of either party are drained below 50%. From the situation you've described and from what I've read and understod of the rules, I do not believe that rules were broken. I could be very wrong on that. I'm not infallible, unfortunately.
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Sounds like a good old fashioned chase to me. No foul there.
My commendations go to the way you handled it also. Turned out as a bit of fun. No need for reports or getting someone sanctioned.
Well done mate.
It all depends on how far away he was when he engaged cruise.. If he were 4k away, it'd be fine.. 2k, thats a bit hazy. I'd say that what he did was pretty shady and he shouldn't have, but I don't think the circumstances really warrant a rule violation.
I dont know in that case. I've been involved with a couple hot cruise debates and now if someone even fires a hot word at me I dont cruise unless I'm leaveing.:angry: I beleive if you want to kill some one exspect they fight for their life by what ever means available, and not behave in a manner convinent to the aggressor. If you dont have time for a life or death struggle dont start a fight. Focus on some RP point of your character or play one of your none violent ones. (directed to the aggressors out there)
Well if no ones mad then, in my opinion no problem.
if you haven t shot back - that means, if there was only one person shooting - and that wasn t you... there has been no battle. if there has been no battle ( remember, it takes at least 2 to have a battle, one running - one shooting is not a battle, no matter what the distance to the opponent ) there has been no engagement. if there has been no engagement, there has been no re-engagement, etc. etc.
it sounds like everything has been well within the rules. an enemy can basicly follow your as long as he likes. and you can run as long as you like - and dock wherever you like - as long as there has been no engagement. once you would have fired back - there would have been a battle > all engagement and re-engagement rules would apply.
but just imagine that - if the re-engement rule means that only one person would have to fire to consider it a "battle" - then a person could fire a few shots at a random person - that person might not even notice it - and the one shooting could rightfully say "you retreated, leave for 4 hours". > hence, you need a real battle, with both ships firing their weapons at each other. usually - if you d apply the self defense rule, a battle would even only occur when at least:
- both sides have fired at each other
- at least one shield had been drained by 50% or more
but that rule only applies to self defense - so ... its just both sides must have fired clearly at each other.
There was never any engagement, and frankly, the guy had every right to catch up with you and eliminate you.
What does bother me is that fact that the Corsair apparently "begged"(?) you to fight him. To me, that's just an indication of PvP whoring, unless, of course, the guy did it in RP.
The next time something like this happens and you have no time to PM your pursuer, just type /l Wait, wait, let me dock first.
Quote:[7:42:05 PM][6:51:36 PM] Igor (Smokey): btw terry
[6:51:48 PM] Terrance Cooper: Ye?
[6:52:00 PM] Igor (Smokey): nothin
[6:52:03 PM] Igor (Smokey): just sayin btw
[6:52:05 PM] Terrance Cooper: <_<
Quote:Johnny_Haas: you shot anti criuse speed rockets!!!
Johnny_Haas: but why????
Johnny_Haas: ??
Johnny_Haas: why you shoot criuse speed rockets?
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' Wrote:if you haven t shot back - that means, if there was only one person shooting - and that wasn t you... there has been no battle. if there has been no battle ( remember, it takes at least 2 to have a battle, one running - one shooting is not a battle, no matter what the distance to the opponent ) there has been no engagement. if there has been no engagement, there has been no re-engagement, etc. etc.
but just imagine that - if the re-engement rule means that only one person would have to fire to consider it a "battle" - then a person could fire a few shots at a random person - that person might not even notice it - and the one shooting could rightfully say "you retreated, leave for 4 hours". > hence, you need a real battle, with both ships firing their weapons at each other. usually - if you d apply the self defense rule, a battle would even only occur when at least:
- both sides have fired at each other
- at least one shield had been drained by 50% or more
but that rule only applies to self defense - so ... its just both sides must have fired clearly at each other.
I agree philosphically with Jinx's points, however this sanction discussion refutes them completely. And was I ever suprised when I read that sanction!
The big problem is : nowhere that I have found in the official rules thread is an "engagement" ever clearly defined. I currently have NO clue exactly where the line is crossed when 2 players go from being "before" an engagement to "in" an engagement. Obviously, that line occurs long before BOTH players fire upon each other, (or that sanction never would have been made) but when exactly...I don't know.
It completely violates my sense of fair play that another player (who I may have no wish to play with for personal reasons) can run me out of a system simply by firing AT me without even hitting me while I leave in order to refuse to play with him.
Regarding cruise engines to catch up, I would think that the pursuer can only engage cruise engines to pursue the fleeing ship AFTER the fleeing ship is engaging cruise engines to escape. If the pursuer engages cruise while the fleeing ship is under normal power, then the pursuer has technically become the fleeing ship and cannot attack.
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Ok folks ... this is the only rule I could find regarding this issue.
5.6 If a player engages cruise engine or docks during a PvP fight, this player is considered fleeing. The fleeing player must not enter the system where the fight took place with any of the characters on his/her account(s) while the enemy (player or players involved in the fight) remains in the system, but no more than 4 hours.
However, the fleeing player can re-engage at will if chased.
I could find absolutely nothing in the rules thread that say anything about limiting the use of cruise within any distance. In other words, where does it say you cannot use cruise within 2k of someone? Unless this rule used to exist and has been pulled or people are making things up, there is no limitation on the use of cruise other than rule # 5.6 above. This rule is specific only to 2 or more ships in "PVP combat" and one engages cruise to escape. This rule states the one who engages cruise is escaping and thus cannot re-engage. But it says nothing about limiting the pursuers cruising.
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On another note ... regarding the use of CDs. Can we get some kind of ruling about these CD spammers? Its quite annoying to have 140+ CDs flying at you within a few seconds. Yes ... CMs are slightly effective against the one or two ... but if you have auto-CM turned on your CMs are shot out at about 5-10 CMs per CD. If someone is trying to escape ... think of an RP reason to chase him down ... something other than you just wanna kill him. Remember ... if they run (jump to cruise to escape) they have to leave and not engage you anyway ... why do you have to kill them to make your point. We need to delineate between PVP and RP a bit better. Unless you're a terrorist or someone collecting a bounty ... there's really no RP reason to chase down and kill someone to add to your trophy wall.