High refire guns.

[Enoch]

I think a boost in damage is unneeded (especially 30%, that's a lot). But, from what I heard, in .86 fast refire guns will get a boost in efficiency. I guess that makes sense, since right now they're ridiculously inefficient compared to lower refire guns.

---

[Slartibartfast]

What Frenchie said. I find lasers pretty useful in a tight turn combat, where you rarely face the opponent head-on (as well as shooting at relatively 'larger distances' when you do face them). As due to their advantage in speed, you can hit the opponent at angles he can't hit you...

But yeah, greater energy efficiency wouldn't hurt. At all.

[Scribbley]

It partly depends on the style one is going for in combat, does it not?

When I used to play a lot on another server a few years ago, I used to always load up on a gun called "quantum equalizers." That only had a refire rate of 1.00, but did massive damage. Ate up all of your power core on even a good ship in about 2 shots, with only two of them. So I would get the fastest most agile ship I could find that could mount them, basically just dodge and jink for as long as it took to get the opponent to get sloppy, then get my two shots in that killed most any fighter.

The point of that long grandpa-esque story is that it directly depends on the sort of maneuvering one is expecting to be doing. If jousting, low refire/high damage per a shot is best. If getting into turning battles and scissoring attacks, maybe not.

---

For myself I am an optimist - it does not seem to be much use being anything else.
-Sir Winston Churchill

[Dashiell]

High refire guns are fun.

And the better choice when chasing a running near-death enemy.
For the rest, slower refire is better imho. The Samael is the best high refire around and in general usage it's kinda meh. a damage boost would be nice, yeah. a 'bonus' for having to stay on target to actually get any dps in.

---

[Friday]

Changing gun damage can be good for snub-to-snub fights, but it upsets the balance of snub vs. large ship fights (where the enemy cant dodge so well).

Efficiency sounds like a good compromise, as one can keep up the fire on the enemy, somewhat compensating for the shots that miss.

It would make these type of high refire guns particularly good in pursuits, as opposed to jousts.

---

[dodike]

I fought a Samael Bactrian in my Magma Hammer Grizzly and I got my arse kicked.

[Durandal]

They're fine. I use a three vengeance Guardian, find it easier to dodge in than the usual magma/codie arrangement.

[Dab]

My Templar/Eagle have Golden Blades, 2.00 weapons. My GC Blossom has Suncannons, 5.88 guns. I've also used all other refire types, just not as often as the above mentioned ones.

My experience is that the 2.00 guns are by far easier to use in most situations.

In a joust, it means you can pop off 1-2 shots and then concentrate on dodging, or fire one, dodge, fire another, dodge and then you pass the enemy fighter. With 5.88s and high refire, you cannot do that. One salvo is a pathetic amount of damage. You have to hold the cursor on the target, which makes you a huge target of your own for their slower-refire, heavier-hitting guns. Or a huge target for their also fast-refire speed guns. Pretty much in a joust, high refire guns only make you easier to hit and do not give any other benefit. This is not balance.

In a fleet fight, higher refire have their pros, but I find dealing damage with my 2.00, 600ms codenames on my very slow Templar much easier than dealing damage with my 5.88, 750ms Suncannon Ds on my extremely fast Blossom. Again, the problem is that the Codenames you can do a few precise strikes and do tons of damage, while on the 5.88s, you must stay on target, and continually hit him for a prolonged time. This is much harder than getting the occasional hit.

High refire guns are much weaker and less effective than their slower counterparts. 4.00s are okay, 3.03s are great, 2.00s almost as great. 5.88s are very difficult to get even close to matching a 3.03/2.00 gun in damage, and only just match a 4.00, in a fleet fight. Jousts are another matter altogether. Go further up the speed ladder and it just gets progressively worse.

Fast refire guns are useful in only 50% of all situations. Slower refire guns are useful in 100% of all situations, and almost always more efficient, effective, and allowing easier time dodging, than faster refire guns.

We need to either give a damage buff to the faster refire rates (10% to 5.88, 15% to 6.77 [chainguns], 20% to 8.33 guns, or something like that), or make slow and fast refire rates available to all factions. Not all VHFs can replace fast refire guns with codenames. Some don't have 4 level 10 slots. And HFs don't have any. Which means using civilian guns or their faction guns (faction preferable). Problem here is, many factions have high refire guns, and not all are very good, and civilian guns are limited to debilitators, an anti-shield weapon, and Flashpoints. Flashes being worse-than-average 8.33s. Some factions do not have any access to slow refire guns. This gives factions with slow guns an advantage, and factions with two guns, a slow and fast variant, a huge advantage. All factions need 2 gun lines. One that is 2.00, 3.03, or 4.00, and one that is 5.88 or 8.33 (or a new speed).


@dodike, your Grizzly is not an HF/VHF. It cannot dodge 5.88s/8.33s like a fighter can.

---

[Ingenious]

My Templar/Eagle have Golden Blades, 2.00 weapons. My GC Blossom has Suncannons, 5.88 guns. I've also used all other refire types, just not as often as the above mentioned ones.

My experience is that the 2.00 guns are by far easier to use in most situations.

In a joust, it means you can pop off 1-2 shots and then concentrate on dodging, or fire one, dodge, fire another, dodge and then you pass the enemy fighter. With 5.88s and high refire, you cannot do that. One salvo is a pathetic amount of damage. You have to hold the cursor on the target, which makes you a huge target of your own for their slower-refire, heavier-hitting guns. Or a huge target for their also fast-refire speed guns. Pretty much in a joust, high refire guns only make you easier to hit and do not give any other benefit. This is not balance.

In a fleet fight, higher refire have their pros, but I find dealing damage with my 2.00, 600ms codenames on my very slow Templar much easier than dealing damage with my 5.88, 750ms Suncannon Ds on my extremely fast Blossom. Again, the problem is that the Codenames you can do a few precise strikes and do tons of damage, while on the 5.88s, you must stay on target, and continually hit him for a prolonged time. This is much harder than getting the occasional hit.

High refire guns are much weaker and less effective than their slower counterparts. 4.00s are okay, 3.03s are great, 2.00s almost as great. 5.88s are very difficult to get even close to matching a 3.03/2.00 gun in damage, and only just match a 4.00, in a fleet fight. Jousts are another matter altogether. Go further up the speed ladder and it just gets progressively worse.

Fast refire guns are useful in only 50% of all situations. Slower refire guns are useful in 100% of all situations, and almost always more efficient, effective, and allowing easier time dodging, than faster refire guns.

We need to either give a damage buff to the faster refire rates (10% to 5.88, 15% to 6.77 [chainguns], 20% to 8.33 guns, or something like that), or make slow and fast refire rates available to all factions. Not all VHFs can replace fast refire guns with codenames. Some don't have 4 level 10 slots. And HFs don't have any. Which means using civilian guns or their faction guns (faction preferable). Problem here is, many factions have high refire guns, and not all are very good, and civilian guns are limited to debilitators, an anti-shield weapon, and Flashpoints. Flashes being worse-than-average 8.33s. Some factions do not have any access to slow refire guns. This gives factions with slow guns an advantage, and factions with two guns, a slow and fast variant, a huge advantage. All factions need 2 gun lines. One that is 2.00, 3.03, or 4.00, and one that is 5.88 or 8.33 (or a new speed).


@dodike, your Grizzly is not an HF/VHF. It cannot dodge 5.88s/8.33s like a fighter can.

This man knows what he's talking about.

[jxie93]

The main problem is that current fighters can dodge too well, in an average duel only around 20% of fired shots find their marks. That's why slow refire high damage weapons are preferred because those shots count if they do hit.

A fast refire gun damage increase sounds like a logical step to approach this.

---

*Signature Walkthrough* | *deviantART Gallery* | *Graphics Repository*