Last time we had a knee-jerk reaction to the last patch.....
perhaps before changing anything major in the next version we could get a rundown? If 4.75 is a ways off, we can wait on this topic, but since we have forums we might as well talk about important upcoming changes.
Spefically I was thinking if certain ships already can't be hit by missiles there is no reason to make them weaker. Turrets shoot at very hich velocity with quite a bit of damage. Battleships only have 2 missile launchers, but many turrets. It seems pretty good to me.
Someone was complaining to me that turrets are already too powerful; fighters really can't do much against a battleship. I explained to him the idea of torpedo cruise hops and he didnt like that idea, even though I have proven that it is quite effective. However if turrets become more powerful there will be next to nothing a fighter can do. As is cruise hopping will work if you are very careful. This is why I suggest fighters having instant cruise engines, it will make a fighter able to avoid a battleship for the most part and still deal some decent damge. Over time, and possibly with help it could take the battleship down.
Battleships are really neat, but they do lose some of their flavor when everyone has one. I really don't mind if everyone has a battleship, however I would like to see a fighter have a little more defense against one. Supreme agility in the form of instant cruise would do just that.
Might I point out that a single fighter complaining that they can't defeat a battleship is just wrong. That guy needs a good kick in the head.
Giving fighters instant cruise is an excellent alternative to weakening battleship turrets. Also, if you're worried about everyone having a battleship, why not just increase their prices?
"Terrorism is the war of the poor, and war is the terrorism of the rich." --Sir Peter Ustinov
There's a 10 million price limit for all ships and equipment, so increasing price of ships can only be done via increasing turret cost, which may lead to abuse. But yes, prices for battleships and cruisers will be increased.
I'm planning to make cruisers and gunboats a bit more powerful than they are no, so they have a chance (if they have escort) in a fight with a bigger ship. They are more agile, but not really enough.
I might make missile launchers weaker on the expence of making turrets a bit stronger. But I'm not sure about that yet. Battleship owners should be in equal positions, and now some battleships have missile weak points that make them much more vulnerable than other battleships. I'm not yet sure if all battleships have weak points, if all do, then making missiles weaker isn't necessary.
Super torpedo anti-battleship weapon proved to be useless because of that shield bug. I have no information yet if there are any bugs with rocket->hull damage (please report if you know any), however it seems that a beam anti-shield uber weapon is required for fighters to have a chance against battleships. There's also a probability that I will make those weapons even more expensive then the current Nova, so two of them will cost like a cruiser - and provide an equal firepower for a top-level fighter. *Anti-shield weapon will probably be the most expensive cause you may theoretically have more than one on a ship. Unlike a torpedo.
Instant cruise engines? What's that?
Finalizing my post with a short list of features that have already been done for 4.75.
- Large train shield bug fixed
- Corrected HP amount for NPC transports and trains
- Nomad capital ships drop more, but they became more powerful
Will publish the whole list of what is planned later.
Any news on the Corsair-hostile mooring point at Crete? If it can't be fixed due to some quirk of the planet, I'm all for having it removed. I'm sure the Corsairs don't want battleships docking at their planet anyway.
It's a shame battleship prices can't be increased easily, because I think they're way too cheap, but I think gunboat and cruiser prices are fine.
Also, the earlier thread about increasing battleship mass was interesting, as long as it doesn't make asteroid field travel more difficult I'm all for it. Cruise engines taking longer to fire on battleships sounds OK and realistic.
Instant cruise engines for fighters? Please please no, it would ruin the mod. It would make trying to attack another fighter pointless.
It would be neat if something could be done with the empty Unknown, maybe move Primus or Gammu there.
But the only major change I would really like to see for 4.75 would be to slightly reduce the strength of battleship and gunboat shields. A very skilled VHF pilot should be able to at least worry a battleship, at the moment there's little competition.
Role-played characters:
daedalus - Liberty Navy
bandersnatch - Ruthless criminal possessed by a (huge) alien
Shredder - Small-time Kusari pirate, looking to join the Blood Dragons
"Bounty Hunters. We don't need that scum." - Admiral Piett
daedalus,Jul 28 2005, 06:15 PM Wrote:A very skilled VHF pilot should be able to at least worry a battleship, at the moment there's little competition.
Battleship shields are fine as they are. A while ago some guy in an Eagle challenged me to a PvP. As soon as I said go, he used his thrusters to get up close and started blasting away at my shields. In about 30 seconds, more than half my shield was gone. Since he was so close to my ship, I had a hard time firing at him with my energy turrets. I started to panic and launched a few missiles after him and killed him. Weaker missile turrets is all they need.
"Terrorism is the war of the poor, and war is the terrorism of the rich." --Sir Peter Ustinov
Denier-of-Soup,Jul 28 2005, 08:29 PM Wrote:Since he was so close to my ship, I had a hard time firing at him with my energy turrets. I started to panic and launched a few missiles after him and killed him. Weaker missile turrets is all they need.
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I remember you telling me about that, it sounds funny :D Maybe two fighters would've been a problem.
Role-played characters:
daedalus - Liberty Navy
bandersnatch - Ruthless criminal possessed by a (huge) alien
Shredder - Small-time Kusari pirate, looking to join the Blood Dragons
"Bounty Hunters. We don't need that scum." - Admiral Piett
You bet. The guy's name is Parker. Unless you want to make yourself look like a coward, don't challenge him. >_>'
By the way, I was just thinking about the cloaking devices used by the Rheinland military in the SP, and was wondering whether they could be made available for purchase to fighter pilots. The Evo 2 admins have the ability to cloak their battleships, so there must be a way.
"Terrorism is the war of the poor, and war is the terrorism of the rich." --Sir Peter Ustinov
Yes soup that's another basic fighter strategy, take your fighter ram the battleship at the point where its turrets have the least coverage and fire away. Because there is no mass difference you go spinning and he turns slightly....
With the right loadout I've seen someone take the 160k shield down to about 1/3 in 10 seconds with a fighter. Keep in mind he didn't even use torpedos or missiles.
If you weaken missile turrets, there won't be a way to deal with fighters. Also, if you make regular turrets stronger, battleships will be too strong vs intermediate craft: gunboats/cruisers. I think it's well balanced at the moment personally.
I would definately applaud upping the damage on the gunboat forward guns, I think it's only 800? The gun has about 1/4 of the arc of a regular weapon (which makes it semi-unique and only effective vs larger slow moving vessels. Last time I checked at least one of the cruiser forward turrets was shooting for 2.5k, that seemed about right for a that vessel size. If you bumped up the gunboat forward turrets I think we would see a slight shift in their popularity. Personally I love the gunboat, it has everything you need to take out a battleship, except more firepower. I would up the forward gun to about 1500 maybe if the cruisers are still around 2.5k. The forward gun is a tricky option at best, but very powerful against battleships.
I have fired upon just about every vessel type, save a few freighters, and every ship except the Rheinland battleship has at least 1 missile weak point. The trick is positioning yourself so the shots will land there. That being said if you therefore remove the Rheinland missile launchers that ship will be worthless as it will be a sitting duck to fighters. Not to mention I'll sell the one I have as it is difficult to dock with jumpgates, nearly impossible for tradelanes, and can't land on planets. The solution you ask? Just make the Rheinland battleship cost 100 million (or about the next highest ship +50). Don't make it weaker, just make it cost more. Anyone who bought a vessel at the lesser price can pay the difference to the admin. How's that?
As for an energy superweapon, please either make it only short range, like 300m, or make it cost a lot of energy or have a very slow projectile speed, like a torpedo. Heck, why not all 3 since it is supposed to simulate a torpedo.
As for the cloaking device, thats an admin only trick.
The idea of making something available to fighters to give them a chance against battleships is a good one, but a shield draining only weapon isn't really going to do much. While 160k shields are a gargantuan undertaking to drop, they pale in comparison to the 300k+ of hull that's left after they go down. An energy weapon sounds good, as does an enormus price, since we don't want everyone with a falcon and some balls to go around challanging capital ships. But it's going to have to do some hull damage too in order to be worth any price at all, expecially since mounting a couple is going to take up weapon hardpoints that could be used for hull-damaging weapons. We probably want to keep it most effective against capital ships, so people don't use them to gain an unreasonable edge in fighter to fighter combat. For that maybe a slow moving plasma based energy weapon? Something like an extreme version of the lavablades and firekisses sold in liberty. 20k - 30k shield damage, 10k - 15k hull damage (yes i know more shield than shield is unusual in an energy weapon but for what we need here it fits), 150-200m/s velocity, and a refire rate of 0.5 to 1.0. A slightly increased range would be in order to reflect the massive increase in power, probably 900m - 1200m. Considerably more powerful than anything else for sale, but i imagine that the price will be astronomical, and perhaps an energy useage of 3k per shot will keep people from abusing them in dogfights instead of bombing runs on cap ships. On an eagle that would allow a pair to be fired 2 or 3 times before the fighter has to break off and recharge.
On a side note, i'm dropping my movement to increase the mass on capital ships as it would make asteroid field navigation damn near impossible. Maybe we could just give anything larger than an armored tranport a top speed of 100m/s instead of the traditional ~78m/s? It would prevent rear hits while docking, that's the most frustrating problem.