ship stats, turn rate

[Hidamari]

Whoever raped this, from degree's per second to whatever the heck it is now. Can you put it back please, it was perfect and now its garbage.

....

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[Redon]

I like the new table in general, but yeah, most people are used to degrees instead of radians it's best to stick to that.

[Ursus]

Trying to figure out a policy on this stuff still. The game itself uses rad/s (look at your CD infocard). Deg/s are a crutch for people who dont want to learn the game.

But we got a lot of people who need crutches

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[Redon]

Radians make sense for some applications in mathematics, but in this case it's simply an inconvenience for people who don't recognize it as radian, don't know how to interpret it or feel more comfortable with degrees in general.

[Ursus]

deg/s is more intuitive, therefore easier to transfer information quickly and the better choice, just trying to figure out the policy on it. missiles and such are listed in-game with rad/s so they still need to be used in some/all places, not sure where

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[Redon]

Oh, I see. I can think of a couple of reasons not to use degrees for the missile turn rates, mostly that they are as you say already being described by rad/s rates on infocards and that converting some rates in ranges of about 9.71 would result in a deg/s number that isn't so intuitive either. I would stick to the deg/s number for the ships though, since it is not only more intuitive to most people (and many are used to the wiki describing ship turn rates in degrees), but it also doesn't reach any unreasonable peak numbers (the highest turnrate was just below 100 deg/s if I remember correctly) and probably preserves more accuracy in its number than the lower-range examples expressed in rad/s (extreme example: 0.03 rad/s for barge could be anywhere between 1.43 - 1.95 in deg/s)

[Ursus]

I think its useful with missiles too, it explains why CDs do loops, because they can turn ~500 degress per second (~1.5 full circles)

and having the information shown one way in some places and another way in other places is what I want to avoid

might use deg/s as the primary number, then provide rad/s as supplemental "full data" on the detail pages

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[Jacen Terek]

Yeah I really don't care which units are used as long as it is consistent. Doing the math to convert to desired units is no big deal.

However, there is a bigger problem with turn rates in the wiki. Many of the spacecraft have one value for turn rate on the main ships page, and a slightly different value for turn rate on that ship's specific page. And its not a difference of units used, degrees or radians, its obviously just inaccurate. For example, on the chart, the Werewolf shows a turn rate of 68.51, but if you click on the ship to bring up detailed info, it shows a turn rate of 64.77. The Spatial, shows 85.94 on the chart, and 57.30 on the ship's detail page. Those discrepancies are not an issue of radians or degrees, that's simply inconsistent info. Getting that fixed would be really helpful.

On that note, I was pondering buying the spatial, but it'd make a big difference if I knew what the turn rate really was. I suspect it isn't really 85.94, cause that would indicate maneuverability comparable to a light fighter... Can anyone enlighten me on this? Is it really maneuverable, or is that just an error in the wiki?

[Ursus]

For example, on the chart, the Werewolf shows a turn rate of 68.51, but if you click on the ship to bring up detailed info, it shows a turn rate of 64.77. The Spatial, shows 85.94 on the chart, and 57.30 on the ship's detail page. Those discrepancies are not an issue of radians or degrees, that's simply inconsistent info. Getting that fixed would be really helpful

The old pages use the upwards turning radius. The index pages and the new detail pages use a 4-way average of up/down/side/side, which more accurately reflects overall handling. New ship pages have been generated but have not been uploaded yet.

There will still be some tiny differences in the averages depending on how the data is generated. PHP rad2deg() function in one place can produce a slightly different number from a wiki expression somewhere else which will be different from the way Excel or Google Spreadsheet shows it. Welcome to the world of pi conversion. This isnt what you are complaining about above, but its something worth pointing out.

On that note, I was pondering buying the spatial, but it'd make a big difference if I knew what the turn rate really was. I suspect it isn't really 85.94, cause that would indicate maneuverability comparable to a light fighter... Can anyone enlighten me on this? Is it really maneuverable, or is that just an error in the wiki?

Use the numbers in the tables for comparison purposes.

Also keep in mind, Spatial is twice the size of the other SHFs

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[Ursus]

On that note, I was pondering buying the spatial, but it'd make a big difference if I knew what the turn rate really was. I suspect it isn't really 85.94, cause that would indicate maneuverability comparable to a light fighter... Can anyone enlighten me on this? Is it really maneuverable, or is that just an error in the wiki?

I got a couple of minutes so here's the raw turning data. Columns are UP, DOWN, SIDE. The original data uses UP only, the new data uses UP, DOWN, SIDE, SIDE (if you count up/down separately, you have to count left/right separately).

Arrastra --

Code:

steering_torque = 54000.000000, 51000.000000, 155000.000000
angular_drag = 60000.000000, 60000.000000, 140000.000000
rotation_inertia = 12400.000000, 12400.000000, 12400.000000

Mjolnir --

Code:

steering_torque = 60000.000000, 60000.000000, 155000.000000
angular_drag = 60000.000000, 60000.000000, 140000.000000
rotation_inertia = 13000.000000, 13000.000000, 13000.000000

Plier --

Code:

steering_torque = 53000.000000, 53000.000000, 150000.000000
angular_drag = 60000.000000, 60000.000000, 140000.000000
rotation_inertia = 12400.000000, 12400.000000, 12400.000000

Recycler --

Code:

steering_torque = 80000.000000, 80000.000000, 86000.000000
angular_drag = 85000.000000, 85000.000000, 85000.000000
rotation_inertia = 17000.000000, 17000.000000, 17000.000000

Spatial --

Code:

steering_torque = 50000000.000000, 50000000.000000, 90000000.000000
angular_drag = 100000000.000000, 100000000.000000, 100000000.000000
rotation_inertia = 30000000.000000, 30000000.000000, 30000000.000000

Werewolf --

Code:

steering_torque = 52000.000000, 53000.000000, 175000.000000
angular_drag = 46000.000000, 46000.000000, 140000.000000
rotation_inertia = 10000.000000, 10000.000000, 10000.000000

Most of the SHFs have more sideways torque over vertical torques, but they also have increased sideways drag to compensate for it. The Spatial has more than twice the sideways thrust, but it does not have any corresponding increase in the amount of sideways drag, so yes it is able to turn sideways way faster than it can do vertical loops. The ship needs to be fixed.

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