' Wrote:Too much to quote, there, Baconsoda, so I'll just answer you like this.
The Corsairs are, frankly, not "semi-docile because of the Wilde problem". The Wilde are a nuisance to the Corsair Empire, nothing more. Given that the Wilde's server presence is also extremely low, I'd judge their potential threat to the Corsairs as a whole as being negligible. There's a viable opening here for a crusade to be called into being. There, I'm just going to have to flatly disagree with you based on obvious evidence.
Obvious evidence that contradicts the RP present in the news articles? That isn't quite obvious if it isn't there. The Wilde's server presence doesn't eliminate their RP presence. In RP, the Corsairs are hard pressed, as are the Hessians, to fight off the Wilde everytime they come. It isn't apparent in the fact that the Wilde faction raids Cadiz every Thursday at 1900 GMT, or anything like that, but it's apparent in the news articles.
' Wrote:The Norfolk is evidently not capable of holding the Cambridge Line. It's simply failing in that task. As the faction document points out, the BAF doesn't have the resources to deal with the Corsairs behind Bretonian borders efficiently or really at all, so the Order of the Lion takes matters into its own hands.
William of Acre and his men would plainly disagree with you there when you say that the Corsairs are the second-biggest threat. They view the Corsairs as the greatest risk to Bretonian safety and are ready and willing to counter it if the Bretonian Armed Forces cannot and will not.
You, my fine sir, have just defined a vigilante faction. It takes matters into its own hands because it feels that the army and law enforcement cannot do enough. That is a vigilante.
' Wrote:The Freelancer ID is a makeshift solution, something like the Colonial Remnant (poor example, possibly, but hey) making use of an IMG ID in 4.84. Please don't confuse us with bounty hunters or self-employed mercenaries. We wouldn't accept credits for simply fulfilling the Crusaders' oath every Knight of the Lion swears to wipe out the Corsair menace. In fact, I'm considering making just that one of the Order's tenets. The Vigilante ID doesn't permit entry into the Omicrons - besides, the term "vigilante" smacks of disaffected citizens gathering up torches and pitchforks. We're an organized, coordinated, and governmentally sanctioned warhost rallying against the Corsair Empire. In fact, the Order even makes sense from a budgetary or troop allocation point of view - we're covering those bases the BAF is too busy to cover themselves.
So the reason you've decided to use the Freelancer ID instead of the Vigilante ID is because it doesn't let you into the Omicrons? Is that really a pain to a faction which has claimed to want to operate in the Omegas where the Corsairs' forward outposts are located? If that doesn't reek of just wanting to come to Gamma and kill Corsairs, I don't know what does..
Furthermore, if you're not going to accept credits for your work, I can see a rules problem coming up very quickly...
[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:49:19 AM] Elgatodiablo: You know its nice that you have all that proof and all, Bacon... but I just don't believe you.
' Wrote:Obvious evidence that contradicts the RP present in the news articles? That isn't quite obvious if it isn't there. The Wilde's server presence doesn't eliminate their RP presence. In RP, the Corsairs are hard pressed, as are the Hessians, to fight off the Wilde everytime they come. It isn't apparent in the fact that the Wilde faction raids Cadiz every Thursday at 1900 GMT, or anything like that, but it's apparent in the news articles.
The news articles around Discovery are fairly distant from actual roleplay established by Discovery players. Hell, there's an article on any base you care to name now screaming about the advent of Gallia, whereas people here are, for the most part, roleplaying Gallia as a novelty and a secret, known about by few and definitely not by Sirius as a whole.
Here's another example, one that ought to hit closer to home - the BAF's been consistently beating the KNF back serverside, yet now, in 4.85, Kusari's managed to conquer half of Leeds. Why is that, do you think? Possibly because abstract roleplay and serverside actions often outright conflict? My instinct would be to rely on what Discovery's players have actually gotten done.
' Wrote:You, my fine sir, have just defined a vigilante faction. It takes matters into its own hands because it feels that the army and law enforcement cannot do enough. That is a vigilante.
Technically, yeah. In a certain sense. On the other hand, vigilantism implies a form of, well, rebellion against established law enforcement. That's not what we're doing - we intend to have official approval. Besides, vigilantes tend to conjure up a gun-slingin' Wild West outlaw picture for me - we're crusaders, not Wild Bill Hickocks. We're not taking justice into our own hands - we're simply extending its reach. Making the long arm of the law even longer.
' Wrote:So the reason you've decided to use the Freelancer ID instead of the Vigilante ID is because it doesn't let you into the Omicrons? Is that really a pain to a faction which has claimed to want to operate in the Omegas where the Corsairs' forward outposts are located? If that doesn't reek of just wanting to come to Gamma and kill Corsairs, I don't know what does..
Furthermore, if you're not going to accept credits for your work, I can see a rules problem coming up very quickly...
You know why we're not intending to make use of the Vigilante ID. I've outlined it above. We're not "coming to Gamma to kill Corsairs". Dusty Lens asked us the same question a page back and we explained the matter to him. About the credits matter, we're going to be discussing that with the admins at length. We're, after all, not Freelancers in the traditional sense - we're just making do with what seems like the best fit for us at the moment.
Three "Hip-hips" and a succession of "Huzzahs" for the blue-bloods brave enough to bypass the borders and bring Bretonian bravado to bear on the bold and over-brawny brimstone-smelling bollock-lacking Cretan deficients.
I can honestly say in all my time patrolling Her Majety's fair demesne that I and many other chaps among the washed classes have found cause to find ourselves champing at the bit to strike as deep against the confounded Corsair as a randy Vicar. They must be stabbed at in their horrible hidey-hole. And now some plucky chaps have sought to do so in the name of chivalry, honour, vengeance and, most-importantly, good etiquette.
Having seen these perilsome pirates persist in their pernicious patrols into our heartland, I give this the official Brinkley seal of approval. Have at them, chaps. Have at them all. Remember the fate of Isaac Brock. Remember the assaults on New London orbit. Remember the pirate King Gentle defecating into the orbit of our fair planets.
We have long memories here in Bretonia. We shall fight them on the Line, we shall fight them in the mine-fields, we shall fight them in the deep Omicrons, we shall never surrender!
Of course, my dicky heart means such a venture may be too bold for me to consider, but I will sponsor any young fellow-me-lad willing to throw in his lot and bring justice's sharp sword to bear on their bare bottoms!
My comments here should be taken as a Corsair player - not as an Admin.
I have to side with some of the others though - and perhaps i am overly cynical, but I'll place bets that we see this noble group in Omicron Gamma more often than not.
Reason being is that the Corsair population in Omega 41 and 5 is always transitory - its going somewhere else, Cambridge, Omega 3 Omega 47 to 49 - the largest static Corsair population is the ones that loiter around Crete - so, if you guys aren't finding Corsairs in the Omegas, where else are you going to go other than Gamma? And to be fair, the Corsairs don't need another marauding group of folks in Gamma, we already have the Hessians, Outcasts, Mercenarys, Bounty Hunters and Keepers thankyou very much (and i'm sure im forgetting someone there).
If this group were dedicated to fighting Corsairs WITHIN Brettonian space i would be less cynical - if this is indeed NOT a military faction but a group of "concerned Brettonians" - how would they ever mass the resources to mount raids into Corsair space anyway? which - lets be honest, doesn't just house Corsairs - you're also going to come up against Hessians - and even though their server presence is low; the Wilde.
While i think the proposal looks nice - i am dubious about how it would work in game.
First short critic: Please, think well before claiming discussion with "BAF representatives". Not everyone in the faction can be considered a representative. I know of noone who could claim that who was contacted. Banza isn't one. (Of course his opinion is valued)
Now for the more serious stuff... I don't say this as BAF official position either, I didn't have enough chance to discuss with the rest. Although it's probably as close as you can get at the moment.
I don't mind valiant Bretonian citizens taking arms and venturing to strike against the Corsairs. I'm not a blue-blood, like sir Roger, but I hold the Bretonian nobility in high esteem. The effort as a whole is a noble endeavour and has my sanction. (I just hope it will go as described by Zig)
About the Bretonian equipment. Having the former BAF officers bring their old Bretonian ships seems reasonable. Equipping others with Bretonian ships... I wouldn't go there yet. A Gunboat seems rather unreasonable. Bretonian guns shouldn't be a problem. All this is subject to negotiation.
' Wrote:My comments here should be taken as a Corsair player - not as an Admin.
I have to side with some of the others though - and perhaps i am overly cynical, but I'll place bets that we see this noble group in Omicron Gamma more often than not.
Reason being is that the Corsair population in Omega 41 and 5 is always transitory - its going somewhere else, Cambridge, Omega 3 Omega 47 to 49 - the largest static Corsair population is the ones that loiter around Crete - so, if you guys aren't finding Corsairs in the Omegas, where else are you going to go other than Gamma? And to be fair, the Corsairs don't need another marauding group of folks in Gamma, we already have the Hessians, Outcasts, Mercenarys, Bounty Hunters and Keepers thankyou very much (and i'm sure im forgetting someone there).
If this group were dedicated to fighting Corsairs WITHIN Brettonian space i would be less cynical - if this is indeed NOT a military faction but a group of "concerned Brettonians" - how would they ever mass the resources to mount raids into Corsair space anyway? which - lets be honest, doesn't just house Corsairs - you're also going to come up against Hessians - and even though their server presence is low; the Wilde.
While i think the proposal looks nice - i am dubious about how it would work in game.
Well, okay, I suppose I'd better straighten the matter of whether or not the Order can be considered a military force out. What we're decidedly NOT is a part of the Bretonian Armed Forces. Some crusaders may be former Armed Forces officers, and we may fly Armed Forces transponder colors (to set a sign that our cause serves the Commonwealth). However, the Order might, in fact, be considered a form of military all its own. As established, we're not vigilantes and don't see ourselves as such. We're crusaders. Knights-errant. The historical chivalric orders participating in the Crusades (Knights Hospitalers, Knights Templars, Knights Teutonics) were effectively military organizations, whether or not they referred to themselves as such. If 4.84's Military ID were still around, that might be an excellent choice for us. As is, we're identifying ourselves as Freelancers because that comes closest to fitting or being compatible with our established goals. So, I suppose we could be called militaristic in nature, although we're not Bretonian Armed Forces. We are, however, allied to and cooperating with them. Going to go back and edit an earlier response of mine to Baconsoda to reflect that.
About your bet? I'll take it, and double the stakes. I repeat, we're not planning to go lolzerg Omicron Gamma on an hourly basis. Events that take us into that system would no doubt happen. We'd organize coordinated efforts. However, by and large, we're not going to be slipping past the Corsair Empire's border defenses to shoot a Centurion or two in your home system. We'll need to play a more defensive game and breach your outer walls first. The name of the game is siege. I'd like to personally vouch for the eleven people that have joined the Order so far - there won't be any OORP originating from these guys. We'd screen recruits thoroughly, too; judging by the response we've gotten so far, the idea of joining a crusade seems to be pretty popular, so we'll work out an effective system for dealing with applicants. I bet we can handle it, too.
freelancers ided, bretonia armed forces tagged, bretonia armed forces ships with bretonia armed forces guns, fighting against enemy of bretonia armed forces...
i think BAF will be really happy for new members...
(i mean, you will make the same as they are trying... )
' Wrote:freelancers ided, bretonia armed forces tagged, bretonia armed forces ships with bretonia armed forces guns, fighting against enemy of bretonia armed forces...
i think BAF will be really happy for new members...
(i mean, you will make the same as they are trying... )
we are not the same as them. Our mission is to crusade towards the corsairs, whilst the BAF's is to defend bretonia's borders. while their efforts are towards defence of bretonia, ours are to the defence of our order, the citizens of bretonia, and to hold back the corsairs
' Wrote:Speaking as a BAF Admiral and second in command.
First short critic: Please, think well before claiming discussion with "BAF representatives". Not everyone in the faction can be considered a representative. I know of noone who could claim that who was contacted. Banza isn't one. (Of course his opinion is valued)
Now for the more serious stuff... I don't say this as BAF official position either, I didn't have enough chance to discuss with the rest. Although it's probably as close as you can get at the moment.
I don't mind valiant Bretonian citizens taking arms and venturing to strike against the Corsairs. I'm not a blue-blood, like sir Roger, but I hold the Bretonian nobility in high esteem. The effort as a whole is a noble endeavour and has my sanction. (I just hope it will go as described by Zig)
About the Bretonian equipment. Having the former BAF officers bring their old Bretonian ships seems reasonable. Equipping others with Bretonian ships... I wouldn't go there yet. A Gunboat seems rather unreasonable. Bretonian guns shouldn't be a problem. All this is subject to negotiation.
Okay, sorry. I like and trust Banza and value his opinion, and I assumed what he said could count for the BAF as a whole for the moment. This is just our initial proposal, after all, and it'll probably be fine-tuned further. Glad you're basically okay with the idea; getting the other BAF to look in on this would be appreciated.
About the ships - yep, that seems to be a repeat concern. Darkflight just had an idea he told us about over Skype on how to deal with this - a good solution on how to deal with this might be to only let founding members have the option to use Bretonian equipment for the moment. After all, the footmen participating in the historical Crusades had to fend for themselves in terms of arms and armor to a good degree.
' Wrote:freelancers ided, bretonia armed forces tagged, bretonia armed forces ships with bretonia armed forces guns, fighting against enemy of bretonia armed forces...
i think BAF will be really happy for new members...
(i mean, you will make the same as they are trying... )
Not to sound like a prick, but you might actually want to read the faction document and understand what the Order's about before making a comment like that. Darkflight outlined the differences for you.
I am amazed at the requirement for this.
I'm quite happy for it to go ahead. As has been stated, Zig is a BHG guildmaster so he won't be fighting as BHG and Knight (Is that the right title?)
Lets be honest, it's just another excuse for an in-road into corsair space. People have been looking for an excuse to do this for ages. It doesn't matter how it gets dressed up.
Form another faction, recruit more members to fight the corsairs!
BHG roam throughout the Omegas and Omicrons, concentrating within one or two systems of Omicron Gamma, raiding frequently.
RHA raid into Gamma from time to time, along with their new found allies the SCRA. Their ZOI is almost identical to the corsairs. With the war between Liberty and Rheinland, theres talk of the Hessians all but abandoning the attacks on Rheinland concentrating instead further 'south'.
BAF allied Mollys are now based in Cambridge attacking hispanic pirates while defending their enemies, the Bretonians, sometimes roaming now as far a field as Omega 3.
With regard to the Battleship Norfolk. Lets not be silly here. It's not even close to being effective, the Mollys have managed to fund, build and equip a fully functioning pirate base there within a stones throw of it.
Talking of which, the Bretonians see the corsairs as possibly the biggest threat?
Haven't they noticed?
The Mollys have opened up a second front in Cambridge. I think they need to look again at their priorites. They are fighting a war on their northern borders with Kusari and losing, to the southeast, the corsairs and to the west, southeast and in the heartlands, the Mollys who are also increasing their powerbase at the expense of Bretonia. The least of these three, given their position strategically are the corsairs. Bretonia even admit there is a massive gap between Gamma and New London.
A small group of dedicated warriors who manage to maintain a front, nay eventually break the enemies lines and attack the very heart of the nation the Bretonian military consider to be possibly their greatest threat and they are going to do this out of their own pockets, without taking the massive bounties offered?
As for trade routes, what would these trade routes be through the Omicrons/Omegas?
Bretonia has managed fine without the need for them. Why would some small orgainisation really need anything from the borderworlds (except possibly artifacts, or even the things that made them)?
The Wilde are not seen as a serious threat...maybe there is a connection afterall....
As far as I'm concerned, go for it. Bretonains are going to be real happy that fully equiped ships of war with good pilots are abondoning the front for some ideal. The Corsairs are attacking!
The corsairs have no bases in Bretonia.
The Mollys have just aquired another one. Thats Dublin, New London and Cambridge.
Kusari are invading and in case it's escaped your attention, winning, roaming at will throughtout northern Bretonia. They have made inroads into Leeds, one jump from the very heart of Bretonia and seat of the Royal Crown and you guys want to go wage war on a people, four systems away through irradiated systems, minefields, asteroid fields, one official warzone and very hostile space (see: Hessian/SCRA/Wilde for 'hostile').
Wow, the soldiers and civilians in Leeds must be real grateful to you for saving them from the corsair menace.
If I was a Guildmaster of the BHG, I might even sponsor such an Order. Give them ships and tech. Great idea. Good pilots are hard to come by and the BHG have enough ships. What about the SD?
They might be ready, willing and able to help. They have a very similar agenda (at least the Bretonian arm of the SD do).
All in all, it appears on the outside to be a thinly veiled excuse to pvp specifically with corsairs. Shame really, because it has potential. It's just limiting itself.
Either way, good luck with it, whatever you decide to do.