' Wrote:However, if we look at the Xeno
The very first line at the top says
Shouldn't that basically just mean that we SHOULD be able to kill traders in cold blood?
1. Dangerous Psycopaths generally don't make demands.
2. They're opposed to trade or interaction with foreign entities.
3. They're enemies will House Corporations, meaning oh say... Just about everyone
And if we apply that Xenos can kill enemy traders in cold blood, couldn't we apply that to everyone else? Not to mention that if we applied the same laws of pirating as we did in say, the 1900's. Shouldn't we technically be able strive pre-emptively and pummel traders till they raise the white flag, or in this case say "I surrender!"
I'm going to say what I said in the other thread since it's relevant here too.
Please do not use the Xenos wiki article to support your arguments or conclusions at this time. The wiki team is hoping that someone who actually plays one will come around and rewrite the page. For starters, the line you quoted did not come from any ingame source and I'd say it fits the Phantoms a lot better than the Xenos.
As Dab pointed out, Xenos used to be the lolwut faction of choice on the unlawful side of things (at that time the BHG had the lawful market pretty well covered, given that they could engage any unlawful at any time with any ship without so much as a word). The Xenos got a restriction placed on them for the same reason the BHG did- for the sake of the people on the receiving end. Yes, you could argue that the Xenos have every reason to shoot every transport they see. You could similarly argue that given the somewhat arcane nature of searching through the bounty boards, it would be fully in-RP for a Bounty Hunter to kill every pirate in sight and then see if they were bountied later. However, both of those arguments give no thought to the player on the receiving end... a transport does not want to have to go around an entire house because a publicly available ID allows them to kill you without giving you any hope of survival or negotiation. A pirate in a light fighter with no bounty on him does not want to be chased around the system by six BHG Battlecruisers (I'm not exaggerating, this happened every day) some of which were likely getting revenge for their trader being pirated minutes before. These rules were put in place for the sake of the players- sometimes RP must step aside to give everyone a fighting chance, or at least something to do. (No, I do not count getting ganked wordlessly by forces you can't possibly destroy as "something to do".)
Lorry has a good point on the relations between pirates and traders... playing the other one gives you a feel of what it's actually like. I make sure to have opposed characters in any area I play in- LPI and LR, RM and VF, GRN and Maquis, etc. Keep an open mind and think about what the other person could be thinking, and if at all possible leave them some room to make your day.
' Wrote:Lorry has a good point on the relations between pirates and traders... playing the other one gives you a feel of what it's actually like. I make sure to have opposed characters in any area I play in- LPI and LR, RM and VF, GRN and Maquis, etc. Keep an open mind and think about what the other person could be thinking, and if at all possible leave them some room to make your day.
You bring up a good point that I will use as well the next time I hear pirates complaining about such things as blanket bounties.
On the actual point of the topic, I don't think pirates per se as pirates should be destroying traders at all, since you don't really want to kill the cow that supplies your milk. (Unless it's one of those non-responding power traders, but that's another issue.) And by that, I'm referring to Corsairs, Outcasts, and the general run of the mill pirates. In the house space, though, then yeah - it would be perfectly within role-play to demand that a player leave your space and offer to escort him out, and if he fails to do so, destroy him, whether it's Liberty, Rhienland, or the others.
(11-21-2013, 12:53 PM)Jihadjoe Wrote: Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.
' Wrote:Please do not use the Xenos wiki article to support your arguments or conclusions at this time. The wiki team is hoping that someone who actually plays one will come around and rewrite the page. For starters, the line you quoted did not come from any ingame source and I'd say it fits the Phantoms a lot better than the Xenos.
Done, though it wasn't a huge change. Might make it more detailed later..
Wiki Wrote:The '''Xenos''' are one of the most unpredictable criminal groups in the Sirius Sector, along with the fact that they're loosely affiliated most of their members are extremists opposed to any trade or other interaction with foreign entities. As they see foreign trade as the cause of the worker's plight, any foreign transports caught by the Xenos are ruthlessly attacked until they abandon their cargo, which the Xenos then use to supply themselves.
There, all 'psychopaths' are removed. We aren't psychopaths anyway. Some of us are disgruntled workers, some just don't like authority, and a few are extremists. But we're all perfectly sane.. Well, mostly sane. Joe may disagree about my character. *Shifty Eyes*
I see where you're coming from with this Ivan but there are a LOT on indie pirates out there who, judging by your reasoning, ask for a hell of a lot.
I've been asked by a Freelancer tagged, pirate ID'd Roc to drop my entire cargo for him. Now considering that my ship was a Freelancer tagged indie trade ship, the argument doesn't stand up.
Don't misunderstand me, I do grudgingly agree your point but there are a lot of players who do this on a daily basis with no RP reason whatsoever, aside from being as much of a pain as possible.
They, and many others will see your fine attempt at RP but will only register the action, not the reason.
In conclusion, I have to agree with some of the previous examples given like "Be excellent to each other" and for my money, be reasonable. You don't want trading to be anymore of a chore than it already is. If you wouldn't like it, why would you expect anyone else to?
I will have to state again that Corsairs in their soverign are alot different from Outcasts in Liberty or any other pirates actually. Corsairs are a house and a nation
Would have to agree with the majority, It makes perfect sense to destroy a non allied groups transports.
Military wise, your cutting off supplies that my be used against you later. Economy wise, killing the competition should increase your profits. So yes on all counts, It makes sense to pirate or off non allied ships.
Quote:6.6 Aggressors are not allowed to destroy a trade vessel prior to issuing a demand and allowing sufficient time to respond. Demands may be cargo, credits or an RP demand, such as leaving the system. "Halt" is not a demand.
6.7 Attacking transports, liners or demanding cargo from the same is not allowed for cruisers and battleships.
Exceptions to this rule are:
a) Terrorist, Nomad, Wild, Phantom ID players;
b) LSF or Liberty Navy Guard vessels operating within Zone 21 or Alaska;
c) Order Guard vessels operating within Alaska or Omicron Minor;
d) Blood Dragon Guard vessels within Chugoku;
e) Corsair Guard vessels within Omicron Gamma;
f) Outcast Guard vessels within Omicron Alpha;
g) Guard ID players in their -own- associated Guard system.
h) Special OP players within the guidelines of their approved RP.
Note that 6.6 says "aggressors" not "pirates". You still have to issue a demand, even if you're a Corsair who sees an Outcast ID'd transport full of cardamine. Your demands can/should be fairly harsh (drop all cargo and get out of my sight) but they still have to be there. The only times you can attack a transport without making a demand is when you either have a Terrorist-type ID (Terrorist, Phantom, Keeper, Wild) or are in a guard system you own (where basically no pvp-rules apply).
If I'm wrong, please correct me. But this is my understanding of the rules.