(02-12-2015, 07:33 AM)Black Widow Wrote: Core are now Sirius Police funded through an unlimited budget courtesy of APM, so much so if your POB is not in house space you have to pay them tax or risk it being Mako'd. They have too much power and need to be nerfed.
Their ID suggestion if true give them way too much power and free-reign over others!
Sounds like you are just a angry man in a Dunkirk rolling in Omicrons. (nerd)
So went to bed hoping I could get a good response from the announcement I posted yesterday. Now I've just eaten up and had a hearty breakfast of top kek. Kek.
If people have concerns or whatever, please read The Core (and even a little BHG Core) lore. Many of the concerns in this thread can be answered in there.
Otherwise, I could run a Q&A session in this silly flood thread, or you could be a normal person and take it to our feedback thread.
(02-12-2015, 07:33 AM)Black Widow Wrote: Core are now Sirius Police funded through an unlimited budget courtesy of APM, so much so if your POB is not in house space you have to pay them tax or risk it being Mako'd. They have too much power and need to be nerfed.
Their ID suggestion if true give them way too much power and free-reign over others!
I have never even considered putting up a POB, since in every system there is someone who thinks he is powerfull enough to demand taxes from you.
This Galaxy is vast; its wonders and beauty are almost unfathomable. But the galaxy also hides dark secrets, some of which have lain dormant since the beginning of time itself. There is a danger in secrets, both in seeking and in knowing. Some things are meant to be hidden from view. Some mysteries defy understanding, and sometimes even the things we think we know are untrue. Some secrets should remain untouched.
(02-12-2015, 07:33 AM)Black Widow Wrote: Core are now Sirius Police funded through an unlimited budget courtesy of APM, so much so if your POB is not in house space you have to pay them tax or risk it being Mako'd. They have too much power and need to be nerfed.
Their ID suggestion if true give them way too much power and free-reign over others!
As far as I remember, The Core cannot act outside their ZOI, only for bounty hunting.
Not to mention there is no way for The Core, at the moment, to enter with their capital ships into such systems as Kepler (jumpgates).
These are two reasons why The Core cannot and will not bring anything big to the House Space and space surrounded by the house space.
First of all time to reply, apologies for not replying but I got called into work when I was intending to sleep, as a result I've been up for approaching 30 hours so if this gets a bit rambly and repetitive you know why.
Also it's time for these posts again.
(02-12-2015, 01:34 AM)S A D B O Y Wrote: I don't see an issue here. It's pretty much like all the house military IDs. Core is hostile to Sairs, Casts, Nomads, AI, and Order. They're on good standings with House lawfuls and that isn't going to change anytime soon.
Core are not traditional Bounty Hunters, opting instead to do their own thing. Doesn't mean anything that they can take bounties, LPI can take bounties too.
I don't think that anything besides nomad remains and the normal contraband (arty/cardy) are actually considered contraband to the core.
APM is under BHG/Core is and their trading arm.
Someone's a little butt blasted, I see.
Let's address these points in order
Quote:I don't see an issue here. It's pretty much like all the house military IDs. Core is hostile to Sairs, Casts, Nomads, AI, and Order. They're on good standings with House lawfuls and that isn't going to change anytime soon.
House military, note the thing that a house military has that the Core does not? A House, a navy does not a house make, it cannot support itself and it does not have the support of the populace. A navy on its own has no direction, there's thing we call it where a military runs the place, it's a "Military Dictatorship" you want one of them go join the SCRA, or if you want to play a house military guess what? There's FIVE OF THEM! Count em, Five, Kusari Naval Forces, Liberty Navy, Rheinland Military, Bretonia Armed Forces, and the Gallic Royal Navy.
Five perfectly serviceable factions that don't necessitate trying to turn what was originally the bugnuck futs but heavily armed arm of the BHG into a house military, it don't need to happen.
Quote:Core are not traditional Bounty Hunters, opting instead to do their own thing. Doesn't mean anything that they can take bounties, LPI can take bounties too.
LPI have restrictions on what bounties they can and cannot take, the Core? Not so much, apparently they aren't the BHG all they need is a lawful entity to bounty someone and suddenly it's open season, if an LPI tried to claim on a bounty on IC posted by RM that would be a problem, for the BHG? A rep problem, not much else
Quote:I don't think that anything besides nomad remains and the normal contraband (arty/cardy) are actually considered contraband to the core.
Well, let's see
Quote:Contraband
The following goods and equipment are deemed contraband by The Core within the regulated systems:
Bounty Hunters Guild Pilots
Artifacts
Cardamine
Liquid Cardamine
Nox
Human Organs
Slaves
Nomad equipment/remains
Artificial Intelligence Equipment
Cloaking Devices
Jump Drives
Cloaking devices, Jump Drives, And the entire Artificial Intelligence faction.
So this is the start, there's no rule as to what you can and cannot declare contraband, considering that the whole thing screams desperate cash grab from Lyth who wants to throw out some threats on the forums and sit there collecting rent from, at the time of posting, only Zoner installations (funny how he doesn't go after the people that have a lot of guns and the willingness and ability to use them, Zoners can't attack unless attacked first and then only in self defence, big restriction on the ID there means that we can defend ourselves but never strike back)
Quote:APM is under BHG/Core is and their trading arm.
Make up your mind, either the Core are related to the BHG and therefore are an extension of that faction like Zoner factions are for the Zoners or they are separate, and a trading arm does not infinite money make when a war you wage, like the Core has, for a while now, against the Nomads and the Order and the Corsairs.
(02-12-2015, 01:36 AM)Saronsen Wrote: I'm not seeing the problem here.
What exactly are you angry over?
The fact they can shoot Lawfuls they consider hostile? Let's forget the fact that they can only do it in their ZoI (Omicrons basically)
Let's also forget that's basically what war is. Lawfuls shooting lawfuls.
Quote:I'm not seeing the problem here.
That would be because you didn’t read my post, perhaps the caps turned you off but I ranted at minimal length about the stupid and overreaching lack of restriction on the ID?
Quote:What exactly are you angry over?
See previous segment RE: Not actually reading the post. Also the fact that Lyth is like “We’ll target everyone! As long as you have an ID that restricts you from counterattacking, then we’ll just krieg your bases till they splode if you don’t pay us lel”
Quote:The fact they can shoot Lawfuls they consider hostile? Let's forget the fact that they can only do it in their ZoI (Omicrons basically)
Actually according to their laughable laws post where they claim that they “Regularly patrol” and therefore “own” these areas (There hasn’t been an active Core presence in O-49 for as long as I can remember, maybe they were there for a bit while I was away?) they claim the entirety of the Omegas and the Omicrons as things that they own, which is hilarious as there are probably grand total of like two Core players who don’t log once a month, seriously, the only Core I’ve seen in ages came to start a fight and was NOTABLY DISAPPOINTED that they did not get to shoot a ZONER VESSEL, a NEUTRAL/ALLOWED VESSEL according to their own laws this very morning, totes not a troll faction.
Quote:Let's also forget that's basically what war is. Lawfuls shooting lawfuls.
I previously made a comment about how we had five house militaries some of which are in an active state of war so you want to play a lawful and krieg on lawfuls then hooray! Go do that, except…. You know, that would mean not going Full Mcintosh
(02-12-2015, 01:44 AM)Mímir Wrote: the omicrons and omegas are supposed to be dangerous
Yes, and the Core’s response to this is to say “PAY US AND WE’LL MAKE IT SAFE!” except that the only way they’ll get enough people to log to make a difference is if they call in all their troll friends and promise them that they’ll get to destroy all of someone else’s hard work on the flimsiest of excuses, i.e. “We gonna sneak in and siege a base while they all offline lel”
(02-12-2015, 01:58 AM)Russell Wrote:
(02-12-2015, 01:42 AM)Void_Nemesis Wrote: I think the problem is more that they are treated like a House Military instead of just a Bunter guild, given the ability to do pretty much anything they want, for example to levy fines and confiscate the cargo; that's something you'd expect from a police or military ID, not bounty hunters.
That's because the Core are paramilitary, not just a bounty hunting guild. That's why they're separate from the normal guild
They serve no purpose then, roll them up into the Order because basically the Core ID is just a better Order ID now that shoots order instead of the other way around. Also they get all those cool perks and the ability to fly through house space not being shot to bits by every lawful everywhere.
(02-12-2015, 02:04 AM)SeaFalcon Wrote: The Core aren't bounty hunters...
BHG earns the money...
The Core spend it on some Sirius domination.
This has been this way for years.
If the Core aren’t BOUNTY HUNTERS then why the good god damned hell are they the official faction for the BOUNTY HUNTERS if they separate themselves completely from the faction that they are the official faction for?
(02-12-2015, 02:05 AM)Omicron Wrote: You're only having problem with anything because you're on the receiving line.
Core =/= BHG
Core is not BHG, Core is official fraction for BHG, BHG is core, BHG is not core, nobody seems to know exactly what relationship the Core and the BHg seem to have except that the Core is totally not related to the BHG but apparently the BHG funds the core because reasons, also Gallia funds the core because that’s another faction unrelated to the Core thatfunds them because reasons.
There is no logic in these posts, that’s like me saying Order| is not Order, if the BHG Core is not the official faction for the BHG and representing the BHG to the mod then why the hell do they even exist?
(02-12-2015, 02:14 AM)TheUnforgiven Wrote:
(02-12-2015, 01:58 AM)Russell Wrote:
(02-12-2015, 01:42 AM)Void_Nemesis Wrote: I think the problem is more that they are treated like a House Military instead of just a Bunter guild, given the ability to do pretty much anything they want, for example to levy fines and confiscate the cargo; that's something you'd expect from a police or military ID, not bounty hunters.
That's because the Core are paramilitary, not just a bounty hunting guild. That's why they're separate from the normal guild
I kinda question this direction the RP of the Core is going though. BHG core ditches bounty hunting to become essentially their own house military of the omicrons and omegas? There's a reason the Order never rose to become like a house military of the same area. I can't see them getting that big and powerful that they could assert that much force over everywhere in the omicrons/omegas (with exceptions of a few). This does in way give them a blank check to go wild.
Yes
(02-12-2015, 02:16 AM)S A D B O Y Wrote: good thing everyone in the omicrons and omegas have a full capline right???
There is no point to this post, there is a thing called REASONS and ROLE PLAY, the REASONS fo this announcement seem to be “Lyth wants money every month without having to lift a finger except for getting to ruin other people’s days”
(02-12-2015, 03:23 AM)sindroms Wrote: If we only added some lines to make other half-dead IDs more interesting to play.
No, no no no no no no no no no no why what the hell how can you possibly be this stupid?
If you don’t find an ID fun to play then don’t play that ID, it’s called a dicersity of Choice, if every ID is slated to eventually become pretty much the same as this one then there’s no point in choosing a faction because of their RP and the ID restrictions to align to this because we’re all about making every faction fun to play for everyone.
I have fun as a Zoner I would not have fun as Core, I don’t want the Zoner ID to become the Core Id and I don’t want the Core ID to become the Zoner ID, if you don’t fit an Id then go find one that fits you as closely as you can and then mould yourself around it, don’t go attempting to make a faction perfect fun for you to play because you may just end up ruining other's fun.
(02-12-2015, 05:11 AM)AceofSpades Wrote: This topic seems to me a legitimate concern... one that in an ideal setting would be discussed cordially and thoughtfully in order to keep the gameplay of said faction focused on what the community wants it to be doing.
Because this is not the case however, new behaviors that may not seem to many as 'sensible Roleplay for Faction X' end up emerging without much community discussion on what sounds 'good'. (such as debate over Great Taxation Demand regarding the entirety of Corsair/Outcast/Zoner/etc. space, as Disco tries to remove such policies from 'Independent Worlds')
Seems the frustration here is due to the Core, which in-RP would have little in the form of stable incoming resources, having the capability to enforce law like a 'House' over a wide ZOI. Not just purpose is a problem -- but setting -- their 'house' is the entirety of where Pirates live and work, and covers even more area than any one House does with all their resources and peoples..
It is not that the Core wouldn't likely pursue such methods as these if possible, but thats probably still far from what's arguably plausible.
IMO the concept that the Core/BH could generate their income by taxing bases and impeding traders.. or by enforcing grandiose House-like policy due to the 'stature of their Military Power'.. can be argued effectively as both lazy and unrealistic. The limited resources of a faction without Planets of industries and factories would not likely be casually thrown at neutral or non-aggressive parties to simply 'flex the muscle', and certainly not at such a dramatic magnitude for a simple cash grab.
The Core operating in a sensible method -- one that is practical of a faction who not only must battle numerous Pirate factions, but is fighting a war with a massive covert enemy -- would not be such a blase blanket strategy of law enforcement and demands (over an even greater area of space than any one House mind you), rather such things would come about from gameplay/roleplay with specific POBs or factions.
Taxes or other 'Core Law Enforcement' ought to be a result of realized gameplay, not a blanket expectation of tribute.
Not that I have much at stake in the game regarding the Core or Omicrons specifically, but this guy lawl..
(02-12-2015, 03:23 AM)sindroms Wrote: If we only added some lines to make other half-dead IDs more interesting to play.
nailed it.. does certainly seem this would be an example of an ID being expanded simply to allow "people a better reason to play them" versus "reasons for people to play them better"; which is a technique that without a robust discussion, only leads to much more debating and nerfing at a later date. Something we all have a stake in and should be cooperating now to avoid later. That having been said it does seem that many recent updates to IDs, Commodities, and etc. for the community are being degraded into simple 'cash grab' opportunities for players, which is sad because seriously who is a vet here and is still broke?
Anyways g'luck with this until the next mess gents
-Aces
I like this post, this guy makes some great points, It’s being reposted here because I think some people should read it again.
(02-12-2015, 07:03 AM)Saronsen Wrote:
(02-12-2015, 05:11 AM)AceofSpades Wrote: Seems the frustration here is due to the Core, which in-RP would have little in the form of stable incoming resources, having the capability to enforce law like a 'House' over a wide ZOI.
And the Zoners have those capabilities? :^)
Okay, let’s see the Core have claimed, with few stations, like four-six for the Core and maybe like eleven-thirteen over all?
Twenty four systems as regularly patrolled and “Under their authority” (This including two systems that are claimed by the Zoner faction, that being O-74 and Omega-49 them making up 2/3 of the Zoner claimed systems with Zoner having some of the largest player populations on the server and la large number of bases and one planet under administration.)
Seven systems as being Rarely patroilled yet still under authority
Ten systems that despite being highly dangerous are still “Under Authority”
And one system that is restricted and under authority, in total this is 42 systems claimed, let’s compare that to Gallia shall we? Thae largest and most powerful house
23? Maybe 30 at the outside?
The Core’s claim over that much of the most lawless sections of space is completely and utterly ludicrous, it’s stupid, it makes no sense, they’ve claimed like three times as many systems as LIBERTY!
WHY?
HOW IS THAT EVEN SUPPOSED TO BE POSSIBLE?
The Zoners in comparison claim 3 systems and a small space around each station that they own.
(02-12-2015, 07:09 AM)Loki557 Wrote: Serious Non-Spiderman Response: Honestly the Core should have just stuck with their initial plan of the Omicrons where most of their RP and activity lies anyways. It seems a bit powergamey to try and claim the Omicrons and Omegas in one swoop with their current resources.
I personally think that the Omicrons was still a stretch as it’s still 28 systems, but it makes more sense than 42 freaking systems, it still being a stupidly large claim, while writing up this piece of bogroll did the OP ever stop to consider the size of space they were claiming?
(02-12-2015, 07:17 AM)Shinju Wrote: Honestly... I remember Lyth telling us all The Core aren't Bounty Hunters, at least bilion times... Yet he wants to claim Bounties Sirius-Wide? Like what? Why should people fly BHG ID if it's nerfed? I see little to no sense here. And if it's because of Contracts in Sirius, then let me add same line for example to LR or GMG ID.
This, if you don’t want the Core to be Bounty Hunters then stop being Bounty Hunters, it’s just that easy. Of course if you want to be bounty hunters while not being bounty hunters you could of course just go ask the admins and they’ll give you whatever you want, as long as you’re not a Zoner apparently.
(02-12-2015, 07:25 AM)Thyrzul Wrote: Can we remove Zoner caps already?
No.
(02-12-2015, 07:33 AM)Black Widow Wrote: Core are now Sirius Police funded through an unlimited budget courtesy of APM, so much so if your POB is not in house space you have to pay them tax or risk it being Mako'd. They have too much power and need to be nerfed.
Their ID suggestion if true give them way too much power and free-reign over others!
(02-12-2015, 07:35 AM)Major_Mayhem Wrote:
(02-12-2015, 07:12 AM)Thyrzul Wrote: CoreCoreCore Btw the arguement kinda fails at this point already:
(02-12-2015, 01:30 AM)Gytrash Wrote: the Core [...] are BOUNTY HUNTERS!
You do realize, this is a classical strawman?
Quote:Misrepresenting someone's argument to make it easier to attack
They are not the Bounty Hunters Guild but they are bounty hunters as stated in the 4th point of their ID.
(02-12-2015, 07:41 AM)Thyrzul Wrote:
As far as I know every ID can hunt bounties since a good while ago already without the need of having a line in their ID specifying that. (Inb4 Council are bounty hunters)
Every ID has restrictions and ZOIs to curb them, the Core can hunt anyone anywhere as long as there’s an applicable bounty.
(02-12-2015, 07:50 AM)Carter Wrote: Let me ask you something. Ever since you came back, all you did was pretty much cry about stuff. Is all of this worth something? Do you get paid to do so? Or is it that there's so much ooRP hate flowing through your body that you feel like busting everyone up with the minimal chance you get? Seriously, it's getting annoying.
I do it for free, no seriously, I do it for free. Some hotpockets would be appreciated, but fighting ridiculous rubbish like this is carthatic for me.
That and I’m planning to get back into some serious business RP as soon as certain soemone’s make some certain posts. *Glares at Finn*
(02-12-2015, 08:00 AM)Flash Wrote:
(02-12-2015, 07:33 AM)Black Widow Wrote: Core are now Sirius Police funded through an unlimited budget courtesy of APM, so much so if your POB is not in house space you have to pay them tax or risk it being Mako'd. They have too much power and need to be nerfed.
Their ID suggestion if true give them way too much power and free-reign over others!
Sounds like you are just a angry man in a Dunkirk rolling in Omicrons. (nerd)
Also, The Core are not BHG, and they are not funded by BHG. : )
Core are/are not funded by BHG who they are/are not related to and there’s this mysterious trading arm that is also related and not related to the Core. Man the Core’s relations are almost as clear as the Order chain of command.
(02-12-2015, 09:12 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: So went to bed hoping I could get a good response from the announcement I posted yesterday. Now I've just eaten up and had a hearty breakfast of top kek. Kek.
If people have concerns or whatever, please read The Core (and even a little BHG Core) lore. Many of the concerns in this thread can be answered in there.
Otherwise, I could run a Q&A session in this silly flood thread, or you could be a normal person and take it to our feedback thread.
You know what, sure, feel free to throw up a QA in the general discussion and explain how you plan to police effectively a space three to four times larger than an actual house or whether the only thing you want to do is grab some cash off people that don’t want a bunch of puerile addlepates turning up to shoot a base that they’ve worked on for years.
(02-12-2015, 09:39 AM)Caelumaresh Wrote:
(02-12-2015, 07:33 AM)Black Widow Wrote: Core are now Sirius Police funded through an unlimited budget courtesy of APM, so much so if your POB is not in house space you have to pay them tax or risk it being Mako'd. They have too much power and need to be nerfed.
Their ID suggestion if true give them way too much power and free-reign over others!
I have never even considered putting up a POB, since in every system there is someone who thinks he is powerfull enough to demand taxes from you.
Unfortunately true, IDs are your biggest restriction there.
(02-12-2015, 01:44 AM)Mímir Wrote: the omicrons and omegas are supposed to be dangerous
Yes, and the Core’s response to this is to say “PAY US AND WE’LL MAKE IT SAFE!” except that the only way they’ll get enough people to log to make a difference is if they call in all their troll friends and promise them that they’ll get to destroy all of someone else’s hard work on the flimsiest of excuses, i.e. “We gonna sneak in and siege a base while they all offline lel”
I think you misunderstand Core. They are not good-guys. Everyone in the Omegas and Omicrons are badguys in their own way, from terrorist Order and Hessians to cannibal Corsairs and power-tripping Core. That famous Zoner diplomacy comes in more handy now than ever, hopefully.
(02-12-2015, 01:44 AM)Mímir Wrote: the omicrons and omegas are supposed to be dangerous
Yes, and the Core’s response to this is to say “PAY US AND WE’LL MAKE IT SAFE!” except that the only way they’ll get enough people to log to make a difference is if they call in all their troll friends and promise them that they’ll get to destroy all of someone else’s hard work on the flimsiest of excuses, i.e. “We gonna sneak in and siege a base while they all offline lel”
I think you misunderstand Core. They are not good-guys. Everyone in the Omegas and Omicrons are badguys in their own way, from terrorist Order and Hessians to cannibal Corsairs and power-tripping Core. That famous Zoner diplomacy comes in more handy now than ever, hopefully.
You mistake my post, the Core have decided to claim 42 systems in a blatant powergaming money grab, the fact that the admins allow this means that there's nothing stopping any faction from claiming any system and ignoring the claim of the previous claimants and running in and shooting people up in there for breaking the new laws, which can be completely arbitrary.