There's something I've noticed happening a lot since I've returned to Discovery, and that is engagement trolling.
Now, don't get me wrong, I am aware that cruise disrupting players constantly just for the sake of annoying them is a punishable offense, but what I'm wondering about is this: What about those of us who fall victim to people who troll this way; how are we allowed to react?
For example, I've been enjoying the new Junker gunboat, along with many other players. We'll often fill up on scrap and haul it off to various places. We'll then be stopped by a lone fighter who disrupts us, engages us, and then stays out of our range so that we cannot finish him off. We're a bunch of gunboats, and he's a fighter, so we're obviously not in danger of dying. He then follows us wherever we go so that we are faced with 3 options:
1: Wait it out for a few hours, and see who has more spare time. Not a very good option against a troll who likely has all the time in the world.
2: Dock, be declared dead due to docking in "combat" within 10k of the enemy, and be unable to resume the route (as we're technically gunboats) for hours.
3: Don't dock, and be sanctioned for F1'ing during a "roleplay situation" when we eventually log out in space.
This sort of thing has happened multiple times every day for me, and seems to be a very common method of trolling now. Like I said earlier, I am aware that what these players do to us is classified as "trolling" and they can be sanctioned for it, but there's still the issue of whether or not we might also be at risk of being sanctioned if we don't just sit in space for hours with the troll.
Personally, I believe that some sort of statute should be added to the rule stating that docking will only count as death if there is proof that the person docking was fleeing the fight and not simply annoyed. For example, perhaps anyone filing a sanction report against people for docking in combat should first have to prove that the person who was docking was in danger of losing the fight; they would need to prove that they had enough firepower to take on the people who docked, or have a screenshot of the person who docked with their shield down at some point during the fight; if you can't even get their shield down, they're obviously not dying.
So... Administrators, do you have any advice for people who are stuck in similar situations in the future? What should I do the next time this happens to me? Would I still be able to play on the server, or is anyone who is trolled in this way essentially unable to play no matter what they do?
This is not a Q.Q. post; I'm simply trying to make sure that the administrators are aware that this sort of thing happens, and I'm hoping we can come up with some sort of solution to prevent it from happening in the future.
Don't say "Hire fighter escorts nub", just in the last few minutes alone I've gotten PM's saying that. That is completely unreasonable; this is not an active server, and it's very difficult to find people willing to sacrifice profit by using a fighter. The only people who will do that are so broke that they don't have anything else to fly in the first place, and they're not good enough to hunt down the enemy fighter anyway. Requiring that people hire fighter escorts in order to avoid being banned whenever they encounter trolls is a good way to ensure that trolls are the only ones left on the server.
Yeah, I believe that docking = death rule sounds stupid, given that player with BS is not escaping onto planet mooring.
We should make exact rules on what player can do.
Let's say, players with fighters and bombers would land on the planet for repairs, its possible in real combat. But any other capital ship mooring the planet is not good for RP, because big vessels, logically, are to be repaired at shipyards. And here comes another rule: sure, BS won't be repaired so fast, if shipyard is under attack. GB is other thing, because it is a relatively small vessel to repair and to re-arm. Reaming bigger ship in shipyard would be kinda impossible. It would be suicide, because it would take place outside the docking bay and would require shields up, leaving hull unprotected against lethal blasts from main battle.
This is the strange line here - what I have encountered about year ago, while GRN and LN/BAF were fighting in Magellan. From RP point of view, Freeport 4 is not even able to service big vessels, so from RP side of the engagements, the caps would go to New York System and back, because it is the closest shipyard - or to the New London, because the distance is almost the same. Hell, Freeport 4 would even disagree with ANY landings from LN/BAF side, even though they are between Liberty and Bretonia, they would not risk their butts in Taus.
Back then (before Gallia put their hands on Leeds), at the time, GRN would suffer way bigger losses, because closes shipyard was like 5 or 6 systems away, compared to the 2 systems away for both BAF and LN - provided that we stick to that rule of repairing caps at shipyards.
According to lorewise statement in recent engagements with battleships - what happens kinda too often for my taste, I would quote anime here (what I do rarely):
"Send him more ships? What does he think, that am I a magician who takes the ships from the hat?!" - LoGH, episode 15.
(08-22-2014, 12:26 AM)Toji-Haku Wrote: Yeah, I believe that docking = death rule sounds stupid, given that player with BS is not escaping onto planet mooring.
We should make exact rules on what player can do.
Let's say, players with fighters and bombers would land on the planet for repairs, its possible in real combat. But any other capital ship mooring the planet is not good for RP, because big vessels, logically, are to be repaired at shipyards. And here comes another rule: sure, BS won't be repaired so fast, if shipyard is under attack. GB is other thing, because it is a relatively small vessel to repair and to re-arm. Reaming bigger ship in shipyard would be kinda impossible. It would be suicide, because it would take place outside the docking bay and would require shields up, leaving hull unprotected against lethal blasts from main battle.
This is the strange line here - what I have encountered about year ago, while GRN and LN/BAF were fighting in Magellan. From RP point of view, Freeport 4 is not even able to service big vessels, so from RP side of the engagements, the caps would go to New York System and back, because it is the closest shipyard - or to the New London, because the distance is almost the same. Hell, Freeport 4 would even disagree with ANY landings from LN/BAF side, even though they are between Liberty and Bretonia, they would not risk their butts in Taus.
I can understand the rule, because it's important to maintain the roleplay environment, and it's also always annoying when people dock, launch, and resume combat; this rule is meant to prevent that, and for the most part it does.
The problem is that there are two different kinds of loopholes; loopholes people use to avoid following rules, and loopholes people use to frame sanction reports against people who aren't trying to violate any rules.
Making exceptions for rules to prevent sanctionlancers creates loopholes for other people to move through.
That's where it gets tough; this is a real issue, but every solution I can think of would have negative impacts on other aspects of the game.
Take screenshots of those trolling offenders...spread their name all of Skype, and then offer rewards to hunt them down and kill them (in-game, of course).
4) Pay the dude what he asks (in case he is a pirate or a corrupt lawful).
5) Bring escorts / snubs that can catch up with and kill the scumbag.
6) Perhaps split up your group, so one of you can dock out of range and change to a fighter.
I don't see anything wrong in what the alleged troll did - he used the ship he had available to him to the best of its ability, and you brought the wrong boats to deal with him. Happens all the time.
4) Pay the dude what he asks (in case he is a pirate or a corrupt lawful).
5) Bring escorts / snubs that can catch up with and kill the scumbag.
6) Perhaps split up your group, so one of you can dock out of range and change to a fighter.
I don't see anything wrong in what the alleged troll did - he used the ship he had available to him to the best of its ability, and you brought the wrong boats to deal with him. Happens all the time.
4. I'm not talking about pirates making demands; these are usually people who are simply engaging us as hostile factions.
5. This server isn't exactly active. There aren't a bunch of skilled snub pilots all over the place that you can just pick up and have fly with you. And some random nub won't work, because they need to be good enough to kill the enemy. Sure, I could offer to pay a pro 20 million to fly a snub instead of a transport, but I'm not even making that much myself.
6. When I'm in a group, we do split, but none of us have snubs anywhere nearby of appropriate factions. I, as well as most of my friends, am a returning player; I don't have the 100+ ships I had before. It's a bit unreasonable to expect people to have ships of every faction in every system as a solution to trolls.
(08-21-2014, 11:36 PM)TLI-Inferno Wrote: Don't say "Hire fighter escorts nub", just in the last few minutes alone I've gotten PM's saying that. That is completely unreasonable; this is not an active server, and it's very difficult to find people willing to sacrifice profit by using a fighter. The only people who will do that are so broke that they don't have anything else to fly in the first place, and they're not good enough to hunt down the enemy fighter anyway. Requiring that people hire fighter escorts in order to avoid being banned whenever they encounter trolls is a good way to ensure that trolls are the only ones left on the server.
Make yourself fighter escort. You said you are group of players, why one of you can´t fly fighter if you have to face problems you mentioned? Fighter which is covered by gunboats (so he can return under their cover if is in danger of being destroyed) and can be bot&bat fed from them could be way how to face these people I guess.
(08-22-2014, 10:00 AM)TLI-Inferno Wrote: 6. When I'm in a group, we do split, but none of us have snubs anywhere nearby of appropriate factions. I, as well as most of my friends, am a returning player; I don't have the 100+ ships I had before. It's a bit unreasonable to expect people to have ships of every faction in every system as a solution to trolls.
You need just one Freelancer IDed ship hired as protection/escort, then you can attack the troll in defense of other ships in convoy.
Quote:2: Dock, be declared dead due to docking in "combat" within 10k of the enemy, and be unable to resume the route (as we're technically gunboats) for hours.
Engagement started when your shield've gone lower than 50%. Before that you can freely dock and undock.
There should be RP exception, forementioned thing that someone (if it is shipyard under attack) would cover the smaller vessels (like GB) being repaired over there. As it comes to the fighters - it would be okay to dock for them, because it is normal that fighters and bombers would land on the planet or base, due to repairs, rearm and refuel - like in real life. BUT IF ONLY, it is FACTION or ALLIED station.
(08-22-2014, 11:31 AM)Toji-Haku Wrote: There should be RP exception, forementioned thing that someone (if it is shipyard under attack) would cover the smaller vessels (like GB) being repaired over there. As it comes to the fighters - it would be okay to dock for them, because it is normal that fighters and bombers would land on the planet or base, due to repairs, rearm and refuel - like in real life. BUT IF ONLY, it is FACTION or ALLIED station.
Too complicated. Also this rule is there mainly to prevent neverending fights where one side stays close to their base and when is almost destroyed, docks, repairs and continues. For example fighter fights are often way too long even without this.