I used to have proper faction ranks for Core however I found limiting the kind of ships I could field would impact on battle performance. We have our HC ranks and then a couple of command ranks, but they don't really carry restrictions as HC can just approve people for flying a ship that they may want to fly.
tl;dr I made a faction in a cap environment and forced everyone to fly snubs. It didn't work.
I'm 2iC of 2 factions, [HF] and VWA. There's a world of difference between the hierarchies of those two factions which I find pretty interesting so I'll just analyse them both and then give my own conclusion.
In the VWA the ranks have little meaning oorply. We have 4 ranks but the difference between the highest two is only in-RP. For example I now hold the highest rank as party leader of the Bundschuh, but oorp I'm only 2iC. LunaticOnTheGrass is the actual leader. Aside from us two there's only 2 other ranks. One is just the normal rank for most players. The other is given to a variety of people: old members (such as those who helped found the faction) or people who have shown a lot of potential and dedication who might at some day become the new 2iC or leader.
Most of all our ranks are for RP however. Heck sometimes I make up some small secondary ranks for chars like quartermaster.
Oorply, there's not even a separate HC in VWA.
When it comes to restrictions, VWA restricts some ships, but that restriction is completely independent of the ranks. Instead some tech as well as GBs is granted by me or Luna and is most of all just dependent on whether the RP background for it makes sense. This also counts for our use of RM tech. We technically don't restrict that at all, but it's just unwritten policy to only have ex-lawful chars fly lawful stuff (except a few shared ships).
HF is worlds apart from this. HF is very hierarchical. There's High Command ranks, fleet command ranks and enlisted ranks. If you do well you get promoted, if you screw up you get demoted. It depends on the leader how much power the HC has. I remember back in 2011, HC actually voted on or discussed almost all matters. The leader at that time was not very active and HC pretty much did all stuff. On the other hand under Charos's leadership which lasted till shortly after our regained officialdom, HC was merely advisory as Charos did everything himself.
What remains the same, regardless of the leader, is that the ranks have a lot more importance in HF than what I'm used to from other factions. Ship restrictions too are completely dependent on ranks. There's no personal capitalships in HF, but quite a few shared ships and who can use what depends on rank. Even people who may use battleships sometimes can for example only use a shared Arbiter, but not our flagships.
Being 2iC of both these factions and involved with them for a long time I've of course got my preference over one style or the other. That being the VWA's style. It's a system that is very relaxed oorp and doesn't make playing a game feel so serious. On the other hand it has provided the best in-RP intrigues I've encountered so far with the eternal rivalry between Luna's char and my own.
However I also feel like if one would apply the hierarchy of either faction to the other, it just wouldn't make sense. A more loosely organised, HCless HF just wouldn't be HF. Perhaps because the oorp feeling also adds to the in-RP feeling. A rebel navy is just not the same as a ragtag band of student activists.
tl;dr how factions are organised both in-RP and ooRP is part what makes every faction unique. I prefer a loose organisation, but with some factions their strictness is just part of how they are.
I see a problem in just one thing: Indies have ship/weapon/whatever access like faction HC members or leaders. Joining faction has no point for some people, because it would only restrict them. Ranks and restrictions in official factions are good both ooRPly and inRP, if an applicant don't feel disadvantaged. Char Aznable summarized it.
(07-06-2015, 03:17 AM)Char Aznable Wrote: the restriction of caps to the higher ranks provides a degree of control over the overall quality of the RPed caps. While a fighter pilot that's having a bad day can be problematic, RP-wise, Caps are always watched more closely, out of logical reasons, and that way you can control what caps are doing out there by restricting people that haven't proven themselves to be capable (even if that sounds strange)
All in all, ranking systems fulfill various roles - mostly they ease the way factions coordinate.
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(07-06-2015, 11:10 AM)Anshur Wrote: I see a problem in just one thing: Indies have ship/weapon/whatever access like faction HC members or leaders. Joining faction has no point for some people, because it would only restrict them. Ranks and restrictions in official factions are good both ooRPly and inRP, if an applicant don't feel disadvantaged. Char Aznable summarized it.
I wonder how Disco would have turned out if dedicated faction players had listened to what people have been telling them countless times, rather than rest on the ever-convenient self-serving "indies no rp, just want big ships - no restrictions"-story. Funny how that story is only ever put forth by self-declared faction loyalists. In fact, it's statements like the one above that sometimes make me have second thoughts about being part of official factions, and it has kept me from applying for more than one official faction for NPC factions that I liked.
People don't want to join your faction because they don't want to fly with you.
That's mostly the reason why people do not join factions, and that's not going to change unless faction players get their heads out of their behinds. Which will be never. God knows a lot of us tried with reasoning and common sense over the years.
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On topic: I think ranks is a bad idea. I never cared for any rank I obtained, I never cared for anyone else's formal rank save for the faction leader and 2IC. I think most sane people use their better judgement - who has experience? Who is reasonable? Fine, those are the guys I'll listen to.
I think ship restrictions are insignificant as well, as long as you don't put huge nubs in caps or pull them out of them if they turn out to be unfit for it. I know a lot of players who never wanted to fly anything but a VHF for their faction, whilst it would seem dumb not put someone like Impy, for instance, in a GB or cap day one. The usual "you must write 5 reports before you can get into a gb/cap" also leads to exactly 5 shoddy roleplay posts (I've written some personally) that might bolster "forum activity" but adds nothing to the overall atmosphere or the fellow player.
Have people roleplay their characters - if they are roleplaying rogues with ambition, you can do forum or in-game roleplay settling rivalries and such. Do away with the subgroups - there's plenty of room for a blood-thirsty killer, as well as a sucidal torpedo-slamming Rogue, within the main LR- IMO. People will soon know which Rogue will pirate you for a song, and which will kill you.
If you need goals to add excitement, donate a percentage of your loot to a shared account, like Sails did. That will not only show which pirate is bringing home the bacon (and thus gaining reputation oorp and inrp), it will also give you a bunch of legitimately roleplayed credits you can use for any purpose you like. You could build a pirate castle, buy a Sarissa or whatever you feel like will move you forward.
We all know that credits are so easy to come by in this game that ships and such have no real value other than what we decide to attach to it. When you roleplay the credits instead, whatever you buy will be of that much more value to you. Then you know you wouldn't have that SRP ship if it wasn't for that massive ore convoy Larry the Rogue busted up, and the Junkers for buying the ore off of you. Other stories can spin off of that. Maybe Larry the Rogue wants to be at the controls of the ship he was instrumental in obtaining, but you eye someone else more loyal to you for command or whatever. Maybe Larry has no ambition at all, but just a penchant for shooting traders. No dumb ranking system to kill off whatever story your players want to tell. If you look at a faction like LH it is indeed possible to have a tight-knit and well-working faction where players have the individual freedom to go their own chosen directions with their characters, without everything falling apart (although there's an elaborate ranking system, but the way I experience it, the ranking system isn't about being able to boss others around, but more about personal progression or a journey - the goals seems to be cleverly created with that in mind).
You create legacy that way, shared stories that have a meaning. It will actually be a special ship, rather than just a SRP ship based on shallow words on a forum and a clichéed story that is painful to read. The same with ranks, they are so unimaginative and uninspiring for a Rogue faction (save for positions that have an actual meaning, like Warlord, advisor, target man and so on).
O wait you wanted your members to rp?
Oohhh wait a sec... Didn't you make LR before have only 5 or 6 people rp and the rest join for pews?
I dont think the here is ranking.
Or have you changed all that?
I mean if every guy can fly a lr gunboat then... There is no real drive anymore. They are at their happy place .
I think there's a taste of salt in the air, let's not go there. I used LR as the example because that is what caused me to post this topic in the first place. As for who joins for RP and who joins for pews will depend. LR- is, for better or worse, a PVP-Centric faction and it will attract people who either want to roleplay or just have a group to fly with and get lots of blues. This is why I am asking about ranking systems- should I even bother?
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PSA: If you have been having stutter/FPS lag on Disco where it does not run as smoothly as other games, please look at the fix here: https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthrea...pid2306502
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CR's had an evolving rank system, but it came down to a dualism of a severely simplified real chain of command and a fairly generic set of Rp ranks which have no practical purpose.
I only see a ranking system as an RP standpoint.
Say, person A is the leader.
Person B is like, second in command.
Person C is a basic soldier.
Person A can command over person B and order him or her around(to some extent so it's still fun for both players to RP in such a way), and Person B can command person C and order him or her around(to some extent so it's still fun for both players to RP in such a way). Personally I don't see how ranking systems can work in Discovery unless there's roleplay involved and the people in question act properly. Say, person C not being able to talk smack to person A due to his paycheck being cut or something. I dunno'. But hey, roleplay is roleplay. Your characters are supposed to act like the player behind them wants them to.
Doesn't really work for pirates, imo. There's just that one guy that's the boss of all bosses and the others are just 'hey, after this bottle of Whiskey we're heading out to kill some guys'.
All in all, as long as there's fun involved a Ranking system is just there to be there.
lol
Would be fun if there would be actual paychecks though. Say, from the bank of the specific faction.
Person A giving credits per month to Person B and C based on what they did in the current month, how they performed and their rank.
The economy in Disco is broken anyway, so it's not like there'd be a lack of credits to give. 8|
(07-06-2015, 08:05 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: I used to have proper faction ranks for Core however I found limiting the kind of ships I could field would impact on battle performance. We have our HC ranks and then a couple of command ranks, but they don't really carry restrictions as HC can just approve people for flying a ship that they may want to fly.
tl;dr I made a faction in a cap environment and forced everyone to fly snubs. It didn't work.