I've said it more times than I can count, and it's been more urgent in other times as now as far as I can tell, but anyway:
Respect goes both ways.
If admins don't respect players, it'll spread in every direction
There were always people in the admin team that understood that, and also people who didn't.
But when poop hits the fan everyone gets hit one way or another.
A lot of the flak some admins (or mods or devs or anyone else) get isn't deserved, but a lot of respect is uselessly squandered by some of them, sometimes on small and petty things.
Here are a few pointers (again, it doesn't matter who of the admins did it, it only matters that there are admins who did this, and the admins who did it could very easily stop if they just became more aware of how these things are perceived, or if it was set as guidelines for them)
-Never insult, gloat, mock, express anger, or belittle people in sanction threads (dont do it any situation, but especially not when using your admin powers). Even if you think the person who gets sanctioned doesn't deserve respect, expressing it doesn't make things better and will only cause more disrespect from all sides
-Don't drop sarcastic one-liners and logical fallacies on people who are trying to have a serious conversation
-Don't use your status or influence as an argument to say "That's like... YOUR opinion, maannn..." or "if you don't like it then leave"
-Don't use "then why are you still playing" as a counter-argument.
-Don't assume you're wiser around the ways of life than players because you're and admin on a gaming platform, or because you think you're older, or because you think you're more educated/experienced. If someone as wise and clever as you is here, there will also be people here who surpass you in those respects.
-Don't treat players like kids who cant be trusted to solve their issues in a conversation (so you stop people's conversations). If you do that, adults who want to have conversations leave, and you're stuck with a population of kids who can't have conversations. And if they really act like kids, guide and supervise them to have proper conversations instead of forbidding them to talk here and telling them to go sling poop at each other one skype.
-Don't think or act like you're the boss, captain, king, or owner of the game and its players. You're a player who has been given and accepted the task of acting as referee, and who has volunteered to help organize the game so the players can enjoy it. If you're just going to use that to get your way at the detriment of others, it's only natural they'll want someone else to do it.
-Don't use the good things you did as justification to do bad things, or use them to rid yourself of people you personally dislike. Players dont enjoy feeling like they may well be the next fly who is about to have its wings pulled out for the fun of others.
Again... this is not about who did it, or when, or in what situation.
Certain things make places go further down the toilet every time they happen, no matter who does it.
And on a completely different note:
It seems admins are spending a lot of time on events and SRP approvals. I may be mistaken in both, since I participate in neither. How about lightening the workload on that, by making events simpler (or less frequent) and lower the bar for SRPs? I can imagine nothing worse than having to read a 40 page RP story written by someone who thinks they are entitled to better stuff than others.
And on a rather negative note, server population may now be so low that it's too late to change things that should've been changed years ago while people were going "everything's fine as long as people still play" as population slowly went to where it is now.
This place is such a weird blend. I mean... really in most places a community of adults will run off or ban underage kids flatly here we want everyone to coalesce and evolve. People go after the admins and devs cause they dont trust them or the system period. Even if they abide by it.
Really discovery is like a rare type of community. Not.. many are left that put so much time into rules that cover a games shortcomings. because really freelancer is incomplete. Its pvp aspect is not balanced at all. and frankly other games are engineered much better. with better programming leaving the community aspect to mere customer complaints.
We co operate in a system we dont trust with people we dont trust and hope to god someone else picks up the bills to keep it going. But one thing that is varymuch apparent.
It doesent seem to matter all that" much. until someone gets really angry. Or. effected enough to post about it.
ftfy. going ravage on somebody isn't a human nature, it's a treat of freak of nature, a treat of a primal-age degenerate and if you call yourself one - by all means. it's twenty first century, not eleventh, we're all civilised popularity down here and we all can coexist and cooperate.
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As a former admin, I can say this. Being an admin is a thankless job. Yes, respect goes both ways but I've seen all too many players who think it's a one-way street. I don't play that way. A lot of players just log in, build a character and start playing having never read the rules. I often find them to be the most argumentative. Even in a sanction, they SAY they've read the rules as part of their condition for release but when they do it again...and again....and again...no, they don't.
Some blame the influence they were under at the time, whatever it was. If you can't handle your liquor or your high, don't play.
Some blame their poor temperament. Again, don't play.
Some blame language issues. Well, it is said that it's an English server. I think some do quite well with it despite them thinking they're not good at it.
Some blame everyone BUT themselves. They need to take a good look at themselves.
And of course, many blame the admins. As I said, it's a thankless job. No decision is made lightly and all are made collectively.
I always thought I was fair as an admin. I remember one situation long ago. A player in server was arguing with me over the way a rule was written after I caught them in violation. I COULD have Bastilled them but I didn't. I did, however, spend two hours debating before they finally listened. What they were doing was finding loopholes and lawyering. I know for fact that many admins wouldn't have put up with it for more the five minutes and I usually can't stand grammar nazis. As to finding loopholes? I consider it a blatant disregard for the rules.
On a positive side, I love this server. It's been my home for some ten or so years. I've taken breaks but always came back. I've RP'd with some great people and admittedly, not missed some who have left. I've also made RL friends with players and had dinner with one of them. In short, this server is what you make of it. I choose to make it a positive place.
My side of the argument: Once upon a time there was a community and the sole few who dedicated their time to it was a lot. BUT they get through good and bad times,
(09-05-2017, 12:29 AM)Doc Holliday Wrote: As a former admin, I can say this. Being an admin is a thankless job. Yes, respect goes both ways but I've seen all too many players who think it's a one-way street. I don't play that way. A lot of players just log in, build a character and start playing having never read the rules. I often find them to be the most argumentative. Even in a sanction, they SAY they've read the rules as part of their condition for release but when they do it again...and again....and again...no, they don't.
Some blame the influence they were under at the time, whatever it was. If you can't handle your liquor or your high, don't play.
Some blame their poor temperament. Again, don't play.
Some blame language issues. Well, it is said that it's an English server. I think some do quite well with it despite them thinking they're not good at it.
Some blame everyone BUT themselves. They need to take a good look at themselves.
And of course, many blame the admins. As I said, it's a thankless job. No decision is made lightly and all are made collectively.
I always thought I was fair as an admin. I remember one situation long ago. A player in server was arguing with me over the way a rule was written after I caught them in violation. I COULD have Bastilled them but I didn't. I did, however, spend two hours debating before they finally listened. What they were doing was finding loopholes and lawyering. I know for fact that many admins wouldn't have put up with it for more the five minutes and I usually can't stand grammar nazis. As to finding loopholes? I consider it a blatant disregard for the rules.
On a positive side, I love this server. It's been my home for some ten or so years. I've taken breaks but always came back. I've RP'd with some great people and admittedly, not missed some who have left. I've also made RL friends with players and had dinner with one of them. In short, this server is what you make of it. I choose to make it a positive place.
(09-04-2017, 03:40 PM)Snoflek Wrote: I actually have a few questions to ask: Do you want to play Discovery Freelancer? Do you care about the Community? Is a petty slight worth it to you to risk destroying this entire thing?
If you care about this community, I sincerely beg you, consider your actions. 'Thick Skin' and all that is fine and good in theory,
but the act of being abbrasive itself is what's damaging us. So please, consider what you're doing to the community around you with all of this.
And most importantly, appreciate the individuals that actually keep this going. The Developers for putting countless hours into programming, writing and modelling, the administrators for trying to police and keep this alive, and the mods for trying to make everyone's life easier.
Think about your actions and how they affect the community around you. It's just as much the community's duty as it is the admins to keep this ship flying.
I fully agree. I see everyday ppl, well known in community, ppl who should be leading it for better, doing nothing except complain. Of everything. I argue, agree, disagree, question all i see and read, and try (not always with sucess, i admit) have an unbiased view of facts. I try see how things will affect everyone, not just me, friends, factions im in, or i like. Maybe thats because im here for short time? I hear that a lot.
But the point Snoflek made still stands: you want keep playing? If yes, consider, think next time you go to bed, what you can do to help?
If not, maybe you should try finding another source of fun on mod? Like do other things, talk with new/different ppl. Even the usual boring hauling can be fun, if you have a group, talking crap of dunno, lunar mission, soccer results or whatanot.
About Admins, like everywhere, surely some uh, not so good ppl may have been on that position. Maybe even someone nowadays there isnt exactly "kind" but, they are just normal ppl, who get pissed by boss in RL, or wife, or a sick pet. Try understand, if you think something isnt fair, give it a time, pm that guy later, explain why. Hardly making a circus will help you anyway.
EDIT:
And for those saying is criticism they doing, are u ppl serious? I mean, if someone say half what ive read been said on face of some admins, you can bet things would go soar. Mostly what i see from those ppl "complaining" is they want themselves, or their friends on those positions.
As for me, as i think im realistical enough, i would rather stop playing than be "sentenced" to be an admin, because i cant bear that much without answering. I suggest that maybe, just maybe some ppl should consider if they find everyone and everything so ruined, so bad, maybe they can do better? Isnt that hard to start new server, after all. Stop being mean on a side note and posing here as angels.