Personally I don't think you should be able to detect another ship if they there is a large enough planetary body in the way. This would actually allow ships to use planets, moons and large asteroids as hiding spots.
Basically it could work based on the same principles of line of sight in the real world. Say you are within 5 k of a planets surface, the range in which you would be detected would drop significantly to about 2-3k. That way you never know what would be behind a planet, and actually have to fly around them to see whats going on on the back side.
This would also work well for POB's since they could actually be hidden behind a planetary body and remain undetected on scanner and visually until very close.
This would be bomb for large asteroid models as well, and allow for ships to 'land' on them, or fly right up to them. A trigger could be set so that once you are within 10m of its surface the scanner efficiency would also drop to around 1 k. A ship could actually hide behind an asteroid waiting to pounce, or if need be, attempt to escape by flying up close to one and stopping. Only if the other ship flew within very close range would they pick up the signal again.
Of course the idea would be to make it based on angle of the observer, so that the block would appear on the side the hiding ship is covered by. So, if a ship were hiding behind a moon or large asteroid, a ship coming up behind them would still detect them (perhaps with a slightly reduced scanning efficiency), but be totally invisible to ships on the far side of the object.
I feel this would make patrolling areas of systems usually left alone necessary since now you just know who's around since they pop up on scanner regardless, and there's no challenge, especially with BS scanners. Not that I'm complaining about long range on scanners, its great, but seems more realistic out in the open, or in thinner asteroid/ice fields. I can think of places like the large asteroid field in Alberta, or Tau-37, where a ship could find some good hiding spots, or try to lose a pursuer by stopping behind an asteroid instead of trying to run. The risk might be the same, and when someone disappears (especially when they're still more than 3 k away) you might think they cloaked. In the end you would search, but unless you found the right asteroid, at the right angle, and got very close (2k) you might miss them altogether!
For example, I don't think LN sitting by the docking ring of Manhattan should be able to sit there and see whats on the other side of the planet automatically. If they only had 'line of sight' scanning ability, patrols would actually have to circle the planet, make sure smugglers or pirates weren't hiding on the back side.
I think it would be epic. Thoughts?
Obvious question is, would this be too hard to manage, and make gameplay too tedious. I could deal without the asteroid parts, but I never understood how you can see whos on the other side of a gas giant or even habitable planet.
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Sounds like something that'd make the server crap itself some more.
I'd like to see the nebula scanner effect be more prevalent and maybe more drastic too. Make it really viable to run off into a nebula and disappear. This would probably favor unlawfuls most, as they tend to have a need to escape. Since lawfuls already have all the fun toys like wide-spread friendly stations and gunboat / capital ship patrols, this could maybe even the playing field some.
Unlawfuls won't enjoy pirating in Shikoku or Cambridge near the Kepler and O-3 gates (or the other side of the gate in O-3, or O-7, or Sigma-13, or Sigma-9, Okinawa, need I go on?) if their scanners don't work in a nebula.
If the main business of unlawfuls is running away, then Haste's proposition makes sense. If their main business is piracy (requiring working equipment, just like lawfuls) then no.
EDIT: And planets and suns aren't "real" or "solid" in the FL universe-- so they don't actually block anything. They are just visual representations, SPH files-- not even CMPs. In order to make them block something you'd have to place a nebula (spherical and transparent) around the planet and give it properties that foul up a scanner. The nebula would have to be bigger than the planet, because its effects would not hinder a ship's scanner unless the ship was inside the nebula.
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Well. I don't know. The coolest unlawful activity in my opinion is 'logical' piracy - pirate in a ship that can't handle actual lawful forces. Then bug out when they arrive.
A lot of pirates seem to pirate only to attract attention and then get to shoot-em-up some local lawfuls.
(01-20-2014, 05:06 PM)Haste Wrote: Well. I don't know. The coolest unlawful activity in my opinion is 'logical' piracy - pirate in a ship that can't handle actual lawful forces. Then bug out when they arrive.
I completely agree. That's the style of piracy in which the Gaian Doctors specialize. In addition, we don't always issue monetary demands and-- although we may harass and hinder quite a bit-- we give the skilled transport pilot a chance to beat us (ideally without destroying us) and avoid the fine.
For example, I took on an Uruz and Hegemon in my Chameleon and though I kept them busy for a while with downed TLs and CDs, there really is no realistic way I could dominate that encounter. So the Uruz was able to escape and gloat, I was able to preach some Gaian nonsense. Both win. He didn't blow up. I didn't blow up (but I got close a few times).
He suggested I bring a more intimidating ship next time, but that's the point-- I don't want to be more intimidating. I want to be a pirate/terrorist, daring underdog.
So back to the scanners and nebulae-- the New Gaian Front would be fine with that, because we primarily flee from House forces, but other groups might not agree.
I would very much like it if nebulae or asteroid fields played a bigger role in hindering Scanner performance.
OR.....
It would be cool if there was a type of Scanner Damper available to ships that countered the effects of certain Scanners.
Scanner diversity. The only diversity we have now are choosing whether to be able to Scan Cargo from far away and objects not so much, or detect objects far away and Cargo not so much. There's got to be other elements we can play with there.
Maybe even a CLOAK detecting Scanner? Jump drive detecting Scanner? Specialized Scanners for detecting certain commodities or IDs?
Pel Wrote:Unlawfuls won't enjoy pirating in Shikoku or Cambridge near the Kepler and O-3 gates ( ...... ) if their scanners don't work in a nebula.
That actually made me an idea.In single player, we see Juni, and Trent use nebulae as a protection from hostile scanners. ( In their case, hostiles are infected Liberty and Rheinland forces ).
Logically, if unlawfuls use nebulae and asteroid fields as protection, or a way to escape, I think that it would be ok for unlawfuls to have better designed scanners in nebulae/asteroid field than those scanners of Lawful forces chasing them.
But it does have a side effect.Imagine a Rogue Destroyer camping between Badlands and West Point.He attacks/robs a transport/train, and then, after the LN forces have recieved informations/intel about specific hostile`s actions ( In this case the Rogue ) they start chasing him, and he just escapes into Badlands every time, and he would use Badlands as an escape route consistently.
Wouldn't that be annoying ?
It is very unlikely that this would be happening, but there is a possibility someone would use this in a negative way, and lots of ppl would be mad.But hey, this is for unlawfuls anyway.Sometimes in Liberty, there is no person to stop a trade lane camper for hours.
This is just a game.I get annoyed by pirates.But its fun to be one sometimes.
I don't think we need this.
TheUnforgiven Wrote:Personally I don't think you should be able to detect another ship if they there is a large enough planetary body in the way. This would actually allow ships to use planets, moons and large asteroids as hiding spots.
Nope.I wouldn't like this game to become some super new updated game stuff bla bla bla.This is Freelancer.Not a game based on real space actions and stuff.
This is a 2003 video game.Not some kind of new MMORPG 3D space game that relies on laws on physics and the way things move and work.
Planet size ratio in this game is actually not real.Someone discussed it already, and it is about 10 times as smaller than it should be really. ( correct me if I am wrong about the number ).But everyone is okay with it .
Making someone`s scanners work worse in Badlands ( the lawful ones ) or nebulae requires alot of coding.
I believe everyone likes the game the way it is.It is already somewhat broken, ( that tractor beam that creates horrible FPS drop, the new polygons on New Haven station that make FPS drop when you look at them, some mistakes in coding, )
(01-20-2014, 08:06 PM)Eonaros Wrote: Nope.I wouldn't like this game to become some super new updated game stuff bla bla bla.This is Freelancer.Not a game based on real space actions and stuff.
This is a 2003 video game.Not some kind of new MMORPG 3D space game that relies on laws on physics and the way things move and work.
Planet size ratio in this game is actually not real.Someone discussed it already, and it is about 10 times as smaller than it should be really. ( correct me if I am wrong about the number ).But everyone is okay with it .
Making someone`s scanners work worse in Badlands ( the lawful ones ) or nebulae requires alot of coding.
I believe everyone likes the game the way it is.It is already somewhat broken, ( that tractor beam that creates horrible FPS drop, the new polygons on New Haven station that make FPS drop when you look at them, some mistakes in coding, )
Don't change the game.
It is cool the way it is.
Well, agree mostly. However the one reason this game will surely die is an unwillingness to change. This is not vanilla, its disco, and if we went by that logic there would be no ID's, armor, scanners, or access to caps/ gunboats and transports.
I'd like to see more reduced scanning in nebulae, and even though the planets are not 'solid' they sure do hurt when you smack into them. The scale was designed to accomodate technology of the time. So why not continue to expand upon whats been added. Why stop? Each update brings little new changes, reflecting upon player input, and thats one of the edges this game still has newer mmorpg's. And i'm totally ok with the ratio, however I wouldn't complain if they revamped the scales. Scale however seems to be the least problematic aspect to the game.
So unless it would KILL the server, I think it would be worth looking into, even for the larger planets like gas giants. All sims are based on RL, within reason, so why not continue to make it a bit more realistic in as many ways as we can? again, save for killing the server with lag altogether.
None of this would lag the server, but the devs would have to think it was important enough to make changes to all the planets in Sirius (not likely).
Or they would have to code something into scanners to recognize existing planets as an object that impedes scanners. Even then, it would probably be more like scanner jamming in proximity to a planet, not a "scanner shadow" for objects behind the planet. I doubt it would ever work the way you describe it in your first post-- ie. the directional or "line of sight" or "object in the way" effect might be hard to create.
But what do I know? Maybe a dev will pick this up as a cool project and show us a proof of concept next week.
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