wasnt sol destroyed?

[Treewyrm]

from the Nomad backstory. I never said Nomads were stupid, they are obviously far from it. Humans are just more advanced.
I would venture to guess that most of the nomad tech was left behind for them by the DK as well. But that one is just an opinion.

I highly doubt humans unlocked everything from it, just the basics stuff that allowed to create Jumpgates and Trade lanes, similar things nomads are currently capable of as well. So many years and still Valhalla is a big secret tightly guarded by Ageira to keep studying it.

I'd say that majority of the tech was derived from Daam K'Vosh as well, that I can agree on, however what makes it different is that nomads are able to successfully use them and reproduce those devices meaning they understand how these devices work.

When humans came to Sirius they were more advanced considering they had a long time already, whilst nomads group in Sirius were in infant state, just emerging into the world with basic tools they had at disposal. To that comparison they were indeed less advanced, but eventually got upper hand in certain fields whilst still falling behind at others. Timeline also puts corrections with the events told in campaign and what has been added afterwards in Discovery extension. Progress doesn't stand still, and in case of nomads' it's pushed further rapidly drawing from the leftover Daam K'Vosh technologies (which they are accustomed better to being directly related to DK as well as in a sense being "heirs" to their tech), human technologies as well as their own research.

There is also one more factor that should be noted: it's the perspective from which scripts are told. Not everything should be taken for literal truth. Freelancer is pretty much about various viewpoints and the conflicts between them. We had very little if nothing at all from nomads' own perspective, it's what I worked on here, creating and adding that essential yet missing puzzle piece. In this regard I am adding perspectives and views onto whole thing.

[Tubalcaine]

I'm not normally a gruff, short-sighted, dug-in, stubborn b*st*rd, but I'm going to be when I say that I don't care what is canon and what isn't, but I think, like it or not, that I speak for FL purists everywhere when I say that what happened before the events of the game are what the intro cutscene that I paid money to get told me.

Also, I will never acknowledge the Colonial Remnant or the Phantoms/C'tan as Freelancer factions.






Disclaimer
The entity known as 'Tubalcaine' cannot be held responsible for what has been said in this post, due to circumstances that may cause ridiculous/delirious behaviour.
The comments/opinions expressed in the above post are not those of 'Tubalcaine', but whatever bizarre force is persuading him to say so, and thus are not endorsed by 'Tubalcaine'.
The comments/opinions in the above post will almost certainly eventually contrast with the true expressed comments/opinions of 'Tubalcaine', once his clear return to normal has been effected.
Do not take the expressed comments/opinions as those of 'Tubalcaine'.

On second thought that may be now.
Those were not my opinions. Unless you want some healthy heated discussion.

In fact it would probably be best if this was swept under the rug. But just know that such thoughts exist!

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[Treewyrm]

@Tubalcaine: ...and therefore you are also never going to acknowledge Gallia house as well.

I won't argue with that kind of stance, mainly because it's pointless to try even. But here is what I think. Pity as it may be and unfortunately zealous purity in such cases often has been exaggerated to the point of absurdity stalling the game time line, forcing stagnation and eventually leading to it's demise due to the lack of additions and changes which are necessary to maintain the interest levels and ensure longevity. No need to go far to find a proof: this whole place and the mod itself are the testament. Of course, not every addition is beneficial but not adding any at all causes more harm in a long run terms rather than even trial and error approach would. But I digress, to each own and of no surprise disagreements may surface on almost every subject, yet the mechanism of progress keeps going on regardless of them, otherwise if everything remained the same it were initially and nothing would have changed then by now Discovery would have been no more either and neither you nor me here would have made those posts here. I've been to many other modding communities, and there were too few people who accepted only what they got out of a box that the game came in, and often when I saw them I wondered what they were doing around modding circles in the first place given that the whole point of modding is a game being modifiable and using this possibility to extend and create more than the original released game have offered, from small mods to whole total conversions, and therefore extending game lifespan by years beyond the standard sale period, a trend which game developers and publishes have caught relatively recently by starting to provide user friendly tools straight out of the box more often, developing games with extensibility in mind from the beginning, becoming an essential product feature and sometimes even offering limited support.

[Klaw117]

From what I gathered, Rockwell (the Admiral) survived on Pluto. He then blasted off to Sirius( With his Deus Ex Machina ) and formed The Order. The Order was originally formed to uphold peace and security in Liberty, as well as keep watch for the return of the Nomads.

I don't know if he actually created it, but it's possible that he was one of the first members. If this were the case, then the Order of Cincinnatus and the Order High Command might know that Sol was destroyed, but I think it's highly unlikely that they would release this to the public.

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Carlos Rivera: Corsair Brotherhood Pirate - Retired, shifted to Tripoli Shipyard's Research and Development engineering teams
Anthony Cameron: Guild Core Bounty Hunter - Killed in Action, committed suicide after being trapped in Omicron Minor following its destruction
Juan Ruiz: Outcast Ghost of Razgriz Pirate - Killed in Action, killed by the Sirius Coalition Revolutionary Army during Bretonian piracy raid
Michael Winchester: Liberty Security Force Agent - Missing in Action, likely killed during Rheinland espionage mission or trapped in Rheinland Space
Eric McCormick: Order Pilot - Retired, shifted to planetside training of new recruits

Liberty and Nomad Backstory, Very interesting - read it!

[me_b_kevin]

*on a side note* i especially like the background music in the long version video....pulled straight from the movie Predator

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Mon'Star the Red- Rated "R" : http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=3224
Aboard the Necrosis- Rated "E": http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=3313

[Tubalcaine]

I'm not supporting what I said earlier, because I don't agree with it. But...

@Tubalcaine: ...and therefore you are also never going to acknowledge Gallia house as well.

I wouldn't count on that.
Actually, I was thinking a while ago about penning RP etc for a Galian Character when the opportunity arises and I can get back on the server.

I suppose the main reason that someone wouldn't acknowledge the C'tan or particularly the colonial remnant is because they are straight lifts from other universes. The only reason I accept (but I actually think some work very well) some of the Star Wars ships being used in Disco is because all SW related backstory behind them is left out. I'm sorry but I can give no good reason as to why import factions like the CR are bad things, but I just feel that they don't entirely belong here.

I won't argue with that kind of stance, mainly because it's pointless to try even.

:lol:

Pity as it may be and unfortunately zealous purity in such cases often has been exaggerated to the point of absurdity stalling the game time line, forcing stagnation and eventually leading to it's demise due to the lack of additions and changes which are necessary to maintain the interest levels and ensure longevity.

I'm all for addition, I can't wait for Galia, you just misunderstand that I welcome the idea of addition, just not the change of events that have already transpired. Or the importing of factions from other universes (for no apparent reason).

While some may revel in having the CR... err.... police your independent home system, or blowing up the occasional Cyclon that floats by with the intention of DESTROYING ALL HUMANS, it's likely that some of those same people would heartily object to say, the formation of Palpatines' Galactic Empire springing up overnight, and a Rebel Alliance being formed to... well, rebel. I'm sure that the number of people shouting "Go play Freeworlds" at them would be large.

Otherwise if everything remained the same it were initially and nothing would have changed then by now Discovery would have been no more either and neither you nor me here would have made those posts here.

You don't need to change standing canon to make a mod, which is what Discovery (in most cases) has not done. Most of Discovery's content has been expansion on the canon and enhancements to the game.

I've been to many other modding communities, and there were too few people who accepted only what they got out of a box that the game came in

How silly of them.


And Dreygon, I just noticed that piece of music from Predator at the end there!
Cracking film and a great tune.

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[bluntpencil2001]

Note that humans had short range jump gates at the start of the Alliance/Coalition war. They also had cloaking technology.

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[Treewyrm]

@Tubalcaine: So basically you just don't acknowledge anything that has a slight reference to external fictional universes, am I getting it now right? But what about if say they get away from that "heritage" and integrate themselves into Freelancer universe as closely as possible, would that change anything in your opinion? Don't get me wrong, I am just curious as to where this threshold between not accepting and accepting lies, in this case yours. I do have my own opinion as to what degree "importing" is possible when a mod is attempting to remain true to Freelancer's spirit and game universe, perhaps in some areas even more stricter that yours, but then again may be not.

Actually no event has changed if you look closely, as it does not affect any faction here or their history and their roleplay even. It doesn't even affect nomads in Sirius, although in a long term run gives them one more purpose - to find the others, this purpose I find very nice and attractive addition to their rather roleplay foundation, little as it may been. That's just bits for fun, and don't really have practical use hence little relevance to the existing timeline and all this mess, just making a change in a larger scope which however remains irrelevant to the actual play. However leaving interesting opportunities which may be explored later, and why not? You said "enhancement", so rather consider it an enhancement to canon, as it doesn't change visibly anything nor does contradict really.

@bluntpencil2001: Yea, I wondered about that too. In Starlancer it's clearly a human technology and Coalition made a good use of it right at the start with introduction. But in Freelancer it seems not and judging by all the commentary made by the characters throughout the campaign it was made pretty clear to a player they could not produce something like in FL and those ships who had were augmented with nomads' cloaking tech. Odd as it is, but that's how it goes I suppose.

[Coin]

Tubs, are you saying that if it's non-freelancer, it's not acceptable? I.e. star wars, star trek, BSG, (blake seven, red dwarf, etc etc etc).

Star wars has no reference to earth at all. 'Long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...' etc. I can see your argument for excluding this.

Star trek began on earth, as space was the final frontier. Sirius, -/+ 500 light years away. inconceivable that a extraterrestrial discovery <ahem> force would not have visited our nearest neighbour, but would have immediately found some pointy-eared peeps gazillions of miles away.

BSG - their canon says they're looking for earth, and in hearing that sol has been destroyed, settle in sirius (apologies to CR if i've got things wrong here, but this is my understanding of your RP)

Blake7 - forget about them, i can't even remember basic premise of plot. I remember thinking as a child 'How can a space-based tv series be so mind-bogglingly DULL?'

Red-dwarf - Lister activates the FTL drive, and they're millions of miles from earth, trying to get home.

Basically my point is that the canon of FL and Disco include references to earth, and has its own background story.

Fans of space-based TV shows that include references to earth, and are prepared to make minor adjustments to fit disco's canon, why can't they stay? Because they weren't in your box when you bought the game? I'm not trying to suggest that blake7 has a place on disco (shudders), but if there is a group of people who came from another direction, who talked, looked and breathed like us, and we were the promised land for them, would you tell em to bugger off?
Shame on you.

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A Day in the Life of an NPC | Coin | The Journal of Caius Oakley | Build Your Dream Boat

[Tubalcaine]

Let me start this post by saying that I get a sneaking suspicion that what I am saying has been taken too seriously.

So basically you just don't acknowledge anything that has a slight reference to external fictional universes, am I getting it now right?

No, not at all, I don't mind if people make referencecs or small tie-ins with other universes, for example the C'Tan are merely a small part of <strike>Fallout</strike> Phantom RP, and most people won't even know where they come from!

But what about if say they get away from that "heritage" and integrate themselves into Freelancer universe as closely as possible, would that change anything in your opinion?

Yus.
Take the Star Wars ships used in Discovery for example. They have SW names, keeping them tied in with SW convention, and have SW backstory, keeping them rooted in SW RP. Take away the names and the backstory, and you just have an empty ship that can be anything. All it will have is a touch of SW styling, which in some cases, can fit in with discovery perfectly, and it's as if it was our ship all along.

I don't really have any good examples of import factions- I can't really use the CR because I don't know enough about their backstory in both universes 'cept "Cylons are bad/ Keel all hew-mans", but I just suppose that I am targeting bias wherein many people protest against the use of merely SW ship models in Discovery, and then take a ship from some other universe and recreate that universe around it.

Actually, this has got me onto a topic I believe in now.
I can't tolerate how some people would see all Star Wars ships, even after they have been stripped of all connection to their universe, ousted from the mod, because their style does not fit that of FL, whereas some (in my opinion) such as the Corsair Lunchboat fit their role well, with the 'beaten up' style fitting the Corsairs, while they enjoy their Battlestar Galactica ships, some of which bear the same names (many of which look completely out of place) and then go on to recreate large chunks of their universe around them.

If you can give me a good reason why a clearly non-FL ship is sitting on X base in the Y system without bringing in more ships then fine, a simple "Viper- A mysterious ship of extragalactic origin that appears to have been constructed by human hand etc" as opposed to "Viper- LOL YOU CAN'T HIDE FROM THE COLONIALS, NOT EVEN IN A SEPERATE EXISTENCE!" Would have been just fine.

The more and more I think about why I think this, the root of the problem becomes more elusive. Now I'm simply not sure whether or not I am frustrated by what appears to be inability to expand upon canon material or create something original on the part of "Import Faction" creators, which is strange considering I fully understand the desire to bring the universe you love dearly onto an expanding mod with a flourishing, caring community that could make it happen.

Maybe I'm just urging people to get creative here, I don't really know what I'm arguing for or why.

You said "enhancement", so rather consider it an enhancement to canon, as it doesn't change visibly anything nor does contradict really.

Consider what an enhancement to canon?
Also, it could be argued that whereas the aging game needed enhancement the canon does not.

And finally Coin:

I don't have an argument for excluding SW. In fact, in my opinion SW should be the most likely to be included because of the fact that there is no mention of Earth etc. This makes OUR galaxy fertile ground on which to stomp their boots. If the canon of Star Wars was essentially 'In the very very present day, exactly in this precise, precise location', and humanity grew apart into the Empire and the Rebellion in Sol, before the Rebellion launched Sleeper ships to escape to Sirius, you'd be screwed if you wanted to include SW in disco. Why? Obviously because the population of the err... not-coalition would have to have somehow spent hundreds of years without noticing the Rebel Alliance , despite occupying exactly the same space as them.

However, because it actually took place in a Galaxy far, far away, Corsair scouts in Nomad space could discover a convoy Action VI transports, the long-dead crews of which could have easily set for a foolish extragalactic voyage, as they in absolutely no way whatsoever interfere with existing canon. These Action VI Transports could have easily been reconfigured into use as Corsair gunboats, and then an assembly line started.

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