Balance question

[Dubstep]

I would like to have that model with those Titan stats 8-)

I know rite?

Titan is smaller than Odin, you heard it here first!:cool:

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[RoS]Dubstep[W]

[Yber]

Not exactly sure why you picked Osprey...
It would be better to compare Titan with Odin, Templar and Sabre. Maybe Manta and Wraith too.
but, I never said anything bad about snub models. I always loved em. If they would be more detailed...

If every unlawful VHF had to be balanced against the manta, lawfuls would be screwed.

About the 650 5.88 speed that wouldn't match the 600 shieldbuster, imo, use debs. If you can't hit with 600 speed 4.00 (salamancas) you won't hit with 600ms 5.88 either.

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inb4 Sirius gets renamed to XTF.

[Govedo13]

Oh look the circus continues- Jinx what are you smoking? Have you read the zoner ID? It says that zoners don't PvP I would direct you to the topic where Dane asked for Osprey resize and got not u because the fact that it is zoner ship but since you are in Dev team you already know that, claiming that Titan and Odin have the same agility make me laugh as well. The size is more or less irrelevant- if you disagree compare Wright and Titan together- the result would be the same as with Odin, you might want to add eagle there as well and then claim that Titan is smaller but faster if you wish :lol:. The ship dodging capabilities are a way more important then the size.


However Blodo made some good points in his last post- I agree with him that if Tizona and Colada got the proposed by me bufs they would be OP- increasing the DPS and DPE with 5% for Tizona and 3% for Colada together with the old Salamanca stats with 113 drain would be more then fine.
About the Gladiator- well you can decrease its core and increase its agility- then it still would be 4 Gun HF with MR but it would have more HF features.
Making Centurion fast agile and fragile VHF like Eagle is good idea I guess- it moves/turns like VHF even now- just give it eagle core and VHF shield/guns/hull.

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€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[blubba]

"Poor" justification is a matter of perspective. Corsairs like to say the DPS loss was a specific nerf to them, when 1. all pulse weapons received the same treatment, and 2. it was not a nerf of the gun, it was a nerf of the graviton shield class. And that's what it should be construed as. I don't see how that even affects the Corsairs, except in terms of defence against debs, even though it now lets them actually use specialised shields for certain enemies, rather than forcefeed the graviton shield down every ship because otherwise deb barrage is unthinkable. I hate this paranoid tendency that the graviton nerf was specifically aimed at Corsairs, it was most certainly not.

1) Perspective?
Don't be silly. It clearly affected the corsairs more than any other group, simply by the fact they lost the most.
2) The gun damage went down and the shield remained exactly the same. It was a nerf to pulse weapons and that is what it is construed as. It clearly affects corsairs with regard not only to defence against debs but also in attack to EVERY other type of shield, more than any other group. With this in mind, it is irrelevant what shield the corsair opponent is using with regard to the corsairs pulse weapons now and so the only choice to make is what is affected least by the only other weapon the corsairs have, the now weakened Salamanca. Once more, a nerf that affects corsairs more than any other faction. None of the above is perspective. This is maths. You do say you wanted numbers right?
It's a lot easier to understand and clearer than 'perspective'.

As to Salamancas, they gained DPS because the Corsairs were asking us for a gun that deals more damage. So we upped the damage and energy use accordingly, and of course this is now a "nerf" not a "buff", because some of you disagree. So this brings us to making a point that no matter what we do, it will be wrong to some.
Let me tell you a story of 4.84/4.85 back in the time when the admins ruled that Corsairs shouldn't use debs because they have their own pulses. You had thread after thread saying how this is unfair and should be reversed from many prominent Corsairs. Finally it was reversed, and now that is wrong also?

As I understood it, they were infact asking about the possibility of a second class of weapon, not for the Salamanca to be altered. A simple misunderstanding then or did we just go ahead and change the stats without actual 'consultation'?
That 'mysterious' corsair again?
Furthermore, back when that ruling (read:'Sanction') took place regarding civilian tech, there were no viable alternatives to those civilian pulse weapons, nor infact ships for that class that was also mentioned re. that sanction and it took that kind of attention for it to get changed so I figure that yes, it's wrong and clearly, so did almost everyone else because shortly after that, they got a viable unbugged LF (although it's a bit of a brick to be honest) and weaponry to suit so there was no longer a need for the civies. Forget to mention that?

I know you yourself weren't around back then, but for all the Corsair players that were and now backtracked, please be consistent. This will not make it useful. It's at best salt on top of the spoiled turkey. The whole class is at the moment marketed as "interceptor" due to the higher cruise speed, but this is the only thing LFs are useful at. Ideally some idea on how to make the class actually useful in PvP without increasing its agility (ideally even decreasing to deal with lag issues) or decreasing size would be better. Yes this change can make it in, but in the end lets face it this will not be the end of the issue, not even close.

At the time of the 'ruling' mentioned earlier, those LF's were very effective in the battles that took place. So much so that a sanction form was completed against them. As for consistancy....

.....Of course for piracy it suffers, but then again does it really given the stats of tizona class 1 turrets?
What about debs? Should they be given the increase too? What justifies Corsair guns having almost +1 efficiency over debs? The speed difference, I'm don't think so.

...Are we going to go into absolute OPness to "fix" Corsair stuff? Come on guys. If we were to do this (and I am not saying that another buff for Colada can't be done, although it already received one but it got drowned out by the alleged "nerf" of the Salamanca), these numbers would need to be heavily toned down - or energy use would need to go up with them.

Alleged?
Yet the Devs admit it was changed and everyone can see that to be the case. How bizarre that you now claim it 'alleged'.
And yet...

As to 4.85 nobody had problems with Corsair guns: in 4.86 suddenly they did, despite the fact that Hessian fighters nor guns did not get buffed. In fact, the only balance changes for Hessians in 4.86 were the Thor, some cruiser rebalancing and the addition of the BS. So what changed? I am asking seriously, not rhetorically
...Anyway, the so called "4.86 nerf action" is either non existant or has been asked for by Corsair players. So enough of this conspiratorial bollocks....
....I prefer talk of numbers rather than trying to enrage each other by emotional displays.

Not sure about the relevance of some of the above to be honest but...hang on...didn't someone mention consistancy?

As to 4.85 nobody had problems with Corsair guns: in 4.86 suddenly they did

So what changed?

Er...you (the dev team) changed the stats of the Salamanca and the Tizona. I thought you knew that?
It is an alteration you as a Dev have admitted and yet you bizarrely continue to deny it's an issue.

Anyway, the so called "4.86 nerf action" is either non existant or has been asked for by Corsair players. So enough of this conspiratorial bollocks...
...I prefer talk of numbers rather than trying to enrage each other by emotional displays.

This is not cobblers sir. I'd go further to say that your post is littered with inaccuracies and half truths which might appear to be deliberately trying to confuse the issue though to be fair, I don't believe that to be the case.
That said however, I would put it to you that it was clearly a nerf action as per the numbers. It was not asked for by the corsair players and therefore whilst there may very well be no conspiracy, it sure looks bad.
Originally, Outcasts and Blood Dragons fought Corsairs in Sigma 13 and again later the Maltese in Eta. Good fun was had by all. This happened.
Back then, Hessians fought corsairs in Omega 5 in the hole on occassion and it too was also good fun. All true. Now, thats no longer a reality.
The actual players haven't really changed. There are a lot still here. Other than the tech, which we know about, what has changed then?
Nothing?
Bottom line: Aside from the new shiplines, the weapons worked fine. They got changed. Now they don't.

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