Bombers VS Capital Ships, Balance Needed

[Knjaz]

Didn't read the whole thread, but here're just few things that were mentioned over last years, again and again and again and again and... well,you got the idea.

For a capship to be made noticeably more efficient than other ship classes it should be given higher maintenance costs, not given to official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

It'd also have a positive effect on server's economy.


(just in case anyone mentions - pursuing a fighter in a battleship is just as immersion killing, but hopefully not many caps do that after cruise drain nerf).

edit: i'm talking about several tens of millions here per respawn. Not even close to hundred+, it'd make them unplayable, but definitely not 10 and less, it'd be too insignificant. IMHO, around 25-50 for battleships, depending on their combat efficiency. (preliminary numbers, the actual ones would be found in the process of testing).
It'd require a new hook, ofc =\

Ofc, other ships would probably have to follow same doctrine (and this is what bomber/snub pilots were strictly against, if I remember correctly.)
If I'm not mistaken, originally this idea belonged to JinX.

==================================================================

Secondly, world of caps and world of snubs is absolutely different in gameplay - with the current game mechanics, skill has extreme importance in snubs.

No Turtle (rmbs) or Nephilim ever will kill 4-5 newbie LD's in a row, one by one, that only had a week in Conn, without resupplying.
I'm fairly sure that top tier PvP'er in some top-tier vhf will easily kill 4-5 newbies with a week in Conn in a row, one by one, without resupplying.

And it takes way more time for snub escorts to down enemy bomber swarm (and not to be downed by them, I remember a bunch of medium-skilled players being annihilated by a single bomber with a snac) before they novaspam capital ships to death and gtfo with a cloak. (no, cloak on a snub with 3 sec charging time is not op, it's quite ok.), skill difference being a huge force multiplier, much bigger than in caps.

[Govedo13]

Yep, Knjaz is quite right. Also I like your quote it would suit well for signature.
I explained how to do it in post #77 and post #84. It is quite easy and harmless way to do it that satisfies all sides.
It gives the option for the RP crowd to RP, to the Snub PvP crowd to PvP and to the Caps PvP Crowd to PvP. Meanwhile it promotes trading and POBs creating work for the pirates and bringing fresh air to the bad activity.
All in the same server without any restrictions and damn easy to implement if there were Devs that actually care about the server.
This topic is full with ridiculous and irrelevant statements that does not propose improvement just as always.

---

€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[Dratai]

Here are three simple facts about disco, and, indeed freelancer, that will make your day so much better when you accept them and stop discussing silly things:

Freelancer is not to scale. (which explains all these solo pilots)
The best ship class is forever the Light fighter.
Waffles are delicious.

[TLI-Inferno]

Bombers are not op it's snacs that are op.

You can't seem to understand that a noob only comes here to pilot a battleship and he grinds a month for it. He then dies in 5 minutes to two snac bombers and leaves for good.

But hey let's not think ahead, let's just care about ourselves. We have been doing what we are doing for two years and look at the great awesome results we've been having. Right, right?

WRONG!

That's the noob's fault for saving up to buy a giant ship that he has no idea how to use. If we balance things so that even a NOOB can kill a pack of bombers, then how would bombers ever kill an experienced capital pilot?

If you don't see how stupid it is to have a game with huge imposing, intimidating capital ships manned by hundreds of capable trained people, designed for planetary conquests, space exploration and glorious battles, that die when atacked by two puny ships with one cannon each. Then there is no cure for you, sorry.

This is not real life, there aren't thousands of people crewing these battleships, there's one single player. If they are powered up enough to be the most powerful ship class against all different enemies, then nobody would use any other ships.

[Knjaz]

There are 2-3 simple solutions on that:
Mk1 Cap guns- the current useless peeshoters, however move the current cerbs to Mk2

Mk2 Cap guns- small chance 5-10% to loose them on death, huge repair costs, huge price:
examples:
4.85 Solaris (price 10m), 4,85 BS Razor(price 100m) 4-10m repair bills.

Mk3 Cap guns- overpowered 100% lost on death, only POB produced. Also Mk3 Cap shield should be implemented.

Time to implement -relative short effort since all available tools are there.
Devs wont implement them so why bother to post further?
If one wants to be overpowered in cap, as it should since it is RP server after all, then he should be able to pay the huge credit price for it together with the huge equipment maintenance price.

This actually might work. And looks like a much faster/easier thing to implement than multi-layered capital ship models, offered by JinX in this thread.
Well, no offense, JinX, but while your solution might look more "qualitative" from the Dev's PoV - with the state of things right now, it'd be good to have at least something to be done, the sooner the better. imho.
Plus, it'd be better to increase capship/battleship combat efficiency together with it's maintenance costs, rather than just make bombers unable to destroy caps. Buffs (at a price) instead of nerfs.

[Thunderer]

Caps would be able to kill 10 bombers if the server population was higher and if the server was more stable, ie. if you could meet more than 10 bombers at a time with your cap, and if you don't crash the server when you start killing each other.
Thus, 3 bombers were made capable of destroying a whole battleship. This is Disco, not Eve. All people who don't like Disco are free to leave and play Eve.
I do, however, think that fighters should be able to bring bombers down faster. It's not so hard now, when those OP missiles are available, but it is still hard and too slow. I'd like all bombers resized to the scale of the current Waran.

For a capship to be made noticeably more efficient than other ship classes it should be given higher maintenance costs, not given to official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

This is a game, not a war. Games are made to be fun, something what wars aren't and never will be. Don't make it a war.

---

Bretonian Treaty Database Bretonian Armed Forces Recruitment Center
Bretonian Charter of Interstellar Law Bretonian Secrets Act

[Evo]

I'd like all bombers resized to the scale of the current Waran.

Heavy bomber class would need to be removed then, and simply have all bombers be heavy bombers. Not sure how I feel about that one. It'd make bombers bland and the same.

---

[Thunderer]

Indeed it would. Disco actually seems to be well balanced.

---

Bretonian Treaty Database Bretonian Armed Forces Recruitment Center
Bretonian Charter of Interstellar Law Bretonian Secrets Act

[Pilip]

Indeed it would. Disco actually seems to be well balanced.

If you intend to keep the server up to 40 players..than yes it is!
How many official players disco has per total in all faction? those that have chars in many faction at once, counts as one, so how many?
In 86 at peak hours there were only a few skilled players in caps on the game systems and more in conn, the rest where newcomers who were getting killed quite easy; that means that Even then the server would have been low populated if not for those noobs in caps, powertrading whatever... Fueling your '''fun'''; if anyone would like to say that is not like that, than i guess that mostly here are having a damn good time even now at this moment with 20 users on; so if this is what you mean then yes is quite balanced, bombers are not OP at all and caps are the undisputed Kill Everything tool. (need only 2 skilled bombers actually, and dont blame the rollback so much)

[Dratai]

bombers are not OP at all and caps are the undisputed Kill Everything tool. (only 2 skilled actually, and dont blame the rollback so much)

Bombers are capable of fighting everything.
So are VHFs at least.
and gunboats.

Provided you know what you are doing and/or are just simply better than the other guy.

Heck, I murdered a vhf and half a bomber with the camara just the other day.
A freighter.
How about that now?