Are we killing Discovery?

[ryoken]

A parable

The Discovery community is one body of sorts.
There are new pieces being added to the body all the time. Some of these new pieces are positive additions to the body and are integrated into the community and grow.
Other new pieces are not adaptable to the community. They will eventually wither and die out.

The larger problem seems to be that some of the otherwise healthy parts of the body become so focused on the rejection of the non adaptable ones that they begin to kill off many of the healthy additions in the process.

If this continues this situation combined with the natural losses could potentially kill off most of the body unintentionally.

So the question is how best to balance rejection of the non compatibles without hurting the rest of the body in the process.

Signed/

---

[song]

Signed/

Yep--that's been my point all along.

---

<span style="font-family:System">Hogosha Exile</span>
The Journal of Benjo Dokosai

visit

[Eppy]

Here's my view:

There is such a thing as over-regulation. It's called Freeworlds, where you are essentially not allowed to be an Independent at all (which has certainly killed Freeworlds, a very excellent mod. I love their Battleships, even though I'd love to remodel most of 'em myself...). Discovery is not Freeworlds. There are a scant few factions who have completely outlawed the purchase of capital ships; personally, I think this is wrong, that every independent should have the right to prove themselves capable and worthy of commanding a Battleship if they want to. This is why the 101st hasn't outlawed it (much as some of us would like to, as I've lobbied for in the past when the original Admin-endorsed faction regulation plan got shot down). We think there are people out there who are certainly capable of properly Roleplaying our Battleships and Dreadnoughts who aren't in factions at all, and we've created an easy system for people who want to show this responsibility to do so and acquire their Battleship; indeed, you don't even have to RP for a Destroyer under our system at all, all you have to do is say 'I'd like to buy this Destroyer' and not do anything exceptionally stupid with it. This is unobjectionable to the majority of the independents; to most of us, it's like getting our driver's license renewed, only simpler.

The problem starts when independents decide that any form of regulation and government is a horrible, horrible thing and decide that their ego supersedes that of the factions (and we have pretty big egos). These people are asking for us to throw out three years of established RP and bend over for a single person; we serve as the only form of hands-on regulation in these parts. Removing us is reverting to a total state of anarchy, and we'd like to keep our power base, thanks. There was recently some debate about if Omicron-85 was public property or not. WHAT? It states specifically in the server rules that systems a faction has paid for are its own and that it can do whatever the hell it wants within them. This minority of independents have chosen to put themselves above everything, when majority is almost universally the rule. I want to know how the hell this is supposed to work, because it makes no sense to me. People should be able to keep their e-pens in check if they don't have the force to back up the threats they're making. Factions can back up their threats. Indies can't. A faction should not abuse its power over the indies, and none of them do, but the louder-mouthed members of the faction-hating indie minority need to learn to respect the fact that it's at the factions' grace that they're not exiled and shot. It's not that they should, it's that they can, and people seem to take benevolence for granted.

This is all coming from an independent, by the way. The Fantasia and most of my characters were independents for several months before I assumed command of the 101st, and Fantasia was still independent up until March, only brought into service due to some politics that resulted in the sabotage of the MNS Legacy. Beyond that, the Cash Cow was independent until a few months ago when she joined the IND on a whim, which honestly isn't saying much, considering how scattered they are. I know what it's like, and I've fought for indie rights before, but they have no idea how frustrating and stupid this looks from a communal picture.

---

Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen

Which Dreadnought was that?

One of your nine.

[song]

A point I would like to add:

Faction members, invite indies into your group. You invite them in, you set an example for them in group chat, yadda yadda yadda. They'll feel welcomed and more obliged to RP.

For example, there's a difference between being in a group and seeing orders being given, like "Target the gunboat!" or something, and being outside the group and just seeing lawfuls rape the unlawfuls. Or vice versa, as the case may be.

By the way--I agree this is an excellent way to "win friends and influence people"....so you don' make them enemies.

ACK! And I did I just hear Epyon make a post about other people's egos being the problem? I must go laugh hysterically now. Oh...wait...he did mention the other side.

Good job...whew.

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<span style="font-family:System">Hogosha Exile</span>
The Journal of Benjo Dokosai

visit

[Eppy]

Yes, bub, I mentioned egos. Hmh. You see, when somebody's ego is bigger than MINE, they are automatically labelled *******s. I have a faction-augmented ego. You cannot exceed a faction-augmented ego as an indie or you need humbling, pure and simple.

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Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen

Which Dreadnought was that?

One of your nine.

[Vero]

but the louder-mouthed members of the faction-hating indie minority need to learn to respect the fact that it's at the factions' grace that they're not exiled and shot. It's not that they should, it's that they can, and people seem to take benevolence for granted.

Welcome to the world of politics.

[chovynz]

I think this is the root of what everyone is trying to say. Whether someone is in a faction or an indie, they have to earn their respect. A PvPing Dreadnought in a faction is still a PvPing Dreadnought, and a RPing Dreadnought that has no faction tag is still an RPing Dreadnought. Everyone deserves a chance to earn respect, and a lot of us have been guilty of not giving them that chance, even without realizing it. Myself included....

I think this is the key to moving forward on this issue.

---

Seek fun and you shall find it. Seek stuff to Q_Q about and you'll find that, too. I choose to have fun.

[n00bl3t]

The Factions are composed of those that wish to take RP to a higher Level.

I hope to hell, that you are not claiming that all faction members have better RP than me. Some of them have, but not all who wear an "official" tag can RP better than some independents.

I met an "official outcast faction person" who claimed he/she had quit cardamine. Yes. That's right.

What is this higher level you speak of?

Here's my view:

There is such a thing as over-regulation. It's called Freeworlds, where you are essentially not allowed to be an Independent at all (which has certainly killed Freeworlds, a very excellent mod. I love their Battleships, even though I'd love to remodel most of 'em myself...). Discovery is not Freeworlds. There are a scant few factions who have completely outlawed the purchase of capital ships; personally, I think this is wrong, that every independent should have the right to prove themselves capable and worthy of commanding a Battleship if they want to. This is why the 101st hasn't outlawed it (much as some of us would like to, as I've lobbied for in the past when the original Admin-endorsed faction regulation plan got shot down). We think there are people out there who are certainly capable of properly Roleplaying our Battleships and Dreadnoughts who aren't in factions at all, and we've created an easy system for people who want to show this responsibility to do so and acquire their Battleship; indeed, you don't even have to RP for a Destroyer under our system at all, all you have to do is say 'I'd like to buy this Destroyer' and not do anything exceptionally stupid with it. This is unobjectionable to the majority of the independents; to most of us, it's like getting our driver's license renewed, only simpler.

The problem starts when independents decide that any form of regulation and government is a horrible, horrible thing and decide that their ego supersedes that of the factions (and we have pretty big egos). These people are asking for us to throw out three years of established RP and bend over for a single person; we serve as the only form of hands-on regulation in these parts. Removing us is reverting to a total state of anarchy, and we'd like to keep our power base, thanks. There was recently some debate about if Omicron-85 was public property or not. WHAT? It states specifically in the server rules that systems a faction has paid for are its own and that it can do whatever the hell it wants within them. This minority of independents have chosen to put themselves above everything, when majority is almost universally the rule. I want to know how the hell this is supposed to work, because it makes no sense to me. People should be able to keep their e-pens in check if they don't have the force to back up the threats they're making. Factions can back up their threats. Indies can't. A faction should not abuse its power over the indies, and none of them do, but the louder-mouthed members of the faction-hating indie minority need to learn to respect the fact that it's at the factions' grace that they're not exiled and shot. It's not that they should, it's that they can, and people seem to take benevolence for granted.

This is all coming from an independent, by the way. The Fantasia and most of my characters were independents for several months before I assumed command of the 101st, and Fantasia was still independent up until March, only brought into service due to some politics that resulted in the sabotage of the MNS Legacy. Beyond that, the Cash Cow was independent until a few months ago when she joined the IND on a whim, which honestly isn't saying much, considering how scattered they are. I know what it's like, and I've fought for indie rights before, but they have no idea how frustrating and stupid this looks from a communal picture.

Didn't recognise you. New avatar. No doubt to insult Akumabito further.

Do you consider me in the faction-hating minority?

85 isn't public property. I will respect that. However, after 85 your authority to control my ship purchase should end. Battleships should not come under your authority. Neither should Destroyers.

we'd like to keep our power base, thanks.

I just want further clarification on this point Eppy.

---

Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[tk9780]

Surly we all should RP within the server rules, and use faction guidelines to bring continuity to our RP.
Factions make guidelines to improve RP, not rules to control the server.
If an Independent players RP is coursing a problem there are server rules in place to correct the matter, it's not the place of Factions to police the server, that is responsibility of the Admin team.

The in ability of some factions to allow independent player to RP as law enforcement agency both in a military and police sense, means these players are simply moving on after the get wealth trading period to becoming pirates / terrorists.