6.6 Aggressors are not allowed to destroy a trade vessel prior to issuing a demand, in system or local chat, and allowing sufficient time to respond. Demands may be cargo, credits or an RP demand, such as leaving the system. "Halt" is not a demand. You must say more than this to ask a ship to stop however you may destroy them if they attempt escape
Please clarify, so the pirates have to make sufficient demands.....alright. so now they have to make sufficient demands, but then they dont cus if u dont answer to "HALT" they can still kill you.
Am i the only one seeing the paradox in this rule???(sry havent read the 50 pages of this thread.....yet....halfway there)
I got pirates by 2 MNS cruisers earlier and didnt mind, started to RP (i was scurred), chatted slightly, i quoted now deleted rules and they (honestly) politely informed me that changed. I said, ahh ok. then went back to RP, payed the 2 cruisers demands of 6 million. And left. i mean 6 all together, not 6 each = 12.
So far, even tho ill admit im a power trading, i havent witnessed abuse with the caps........yet. Maybe its the hours i play on.
I do +1 that BHG should most definitely be allowed to use there caps, it seems only logical, and reasonable.
' Wrote:What I meant to say is that a competent bunch of miners/traders can leave a solo-pirate with no choice but to seek help or he won't make any money.
It's up to traders/miners to take initiative and force pirates to team up.
I do believe you are missing the point both casero and myself are making. It is a rather simple point:
Cruisers with cruise disruptors can solo pirate rather well because they can stop transports from fleeing with their CDs. We're asking for cruisers to lose their disruptors. This will force those who wish to pirate with cruisers to also bring alone a person with a CD. Thus, just as traders are forced to use team work to reach maximum effectiveness, so are pirates.
This request swings both ways. Cops and military cruisers will also have to have company to effectively stop smugglers and such.
' Wrote:I do believe you are missing the point both casero and myself are making. It is a rather simple point:
Cruisers with cruise disruptors can solo pirate rather well because they can stop transports from fleeing with their CDs. We're asking for cruisers to lose their disruptors. This will force those who wish to pirate with cruisers to also bring alone a person with a CD. Thus, just as traders are forced to use team work to reach maximum effectiveness, so are pirates.
This request swings both ways. Cops and military cruisers will also have to have company to effectively stop smugglers and such.
Once again, that's the problem with what you're doing.
"Hey, I think we broke it. So, to fix it, lets break something else".
Outside of Cruiser vs Transport encounters, do they really need to lose their CDs? If so, why there were only few individuals, at least in the forums, who were agreeing with that position before the rule change?
' Wrote:Am i the only one seeing the paradox in this rule???(sry havent read the 50 pages of this thread.....yet....halfway there)
There is no paradox. If you try to flee when they ask you to stop, they are free to kill you. This prevents silent power traders from trying to flee silenetly and then file a sanction report on the pirate because he forgot to make a demand in his rush to kill the trader as the trader tried to fly off silently.
Traders were abusing the fact that pirates were forced to make a demand even if the trader continueally tried fleeing and thus making it difficult to type anything out, other than using a preset message (which the trader then QQQQQ about them only using a preset message and not role playing).
If you cut your engines and comply with their demand to halt, they cannot destroy you until they issue an actual demand. Credits. Cargo. RP demand. If they do, then they violate the rules themselves.
Though proving they did would likely be hard. Perhaps a screen of them pewing you and your engines at 0 and no other demand having been made would suffice. Dunno.
' Wrote:Once again, that's the problem with what you're doing.
"Hey, I think we broke it. So, to fix it, lets break something else".
Outside of Cruiser vs Transport encounters, do they really need to lose their CDs? If so, why there were only few individuals, at least in the forums, who were agreeing with that position before the rule change?
(fixed)
We aren't breaking anything by removing CDs from cruisers. Do explain exactly what is broken by removing CDs from a cruiser. Claiming a suggestion is breaking something, but not explaining what it is breaking is not helpful.
Interception of foreign capital ships in home systems. Quite often Alpha has Zoner warship visitors, for instance, and to be able to deal with them when you don't find friends around, you would need another capital ship.
EDIT: This whole cruiser thing is not so bad. It gives cap pilots on "both sides" stuff to do, and lots of fun for bombers too.
' Wrote:There is no paradox. If you try to flee when they ask you to stop, they are free to kill you. This prevents silent power traders from trying to flee silenetly and then file a sanction report on the pirate because he forgot to make a demand in his rush to kill the trader as the trader tried to fly off silently.
Traders were abusing the fact that pirates were forced to make a demand even if the trader continueally tried fleeing and thus making it difficult to type anything out, other than using a preset message (which the trader then QQQQQ about them only using a preset message and not role playing).
If you cut your engines and comply with their demand to halt, they cannot destroy you until they issue an actual demand. Credits. Cargo. RP demand. If they do, then they violate the rules themselves.
Though proving they did would likely be hard. Perhaps a screen of them pewing you and your engines at 0 and no other demand having been made would suffice. Dunno.
I wasnt arguing for or against anything. just think the rule needs better clarification as i dont fully understand what and when constitutes an RP demand if they can just say halt and then shoot. im not saying all pirates will do that, but some most certainly will. That being said , ive been playing for over 5 months and still dont know how to use preset messages. i tried once, got lost, then forgot about it
' Wrote:Interception of foreign capital ships in home systems. Quite often Alpha has Zoner warship visitors, for instance, and to be able to deal with them when you don't find friends around, you would need another capital ship.
EDIT: This whole cruiser thing is not so bad. It gives cap pilots on "both sides" stuff to do, and lots of fun for bombers too.
Battleships and Battlecruisers can't be used for that purpose?
' Wrote:Interception of foreign capital ships in home systems. Quite often Alpha has Zoner warship visitors, for instance, and to be able to deal with them when you don't find friends around, you would need another capital ship.
EDIT: This whole cruiser thing is not so bad. It gives cap pilots on "both sides" stuff to do, and lots of fun for bombers too.
Just one of many examples. Like, with this, to take out hostile battleship or cruiser in your own home system, you automatically require a teammate. Because gunboat won't solo a cruiser or battleship, fighter wont solo a cruiser or battleship, and bomber won't solo a cruiser or battleships.
In team fights, cruisers are picked for their ability to deal and endure damage (through tanking or evading) and to CD. Remove CDs from it, and battleships suddenly become way, way more useful - because they're often better at both dealing and enduring damage.
Without a CD cruiser's role in a fleet becomes way, WAAAAY less important. To the point where single gunboat or bomber would be more useful.
' Wrote:Battleships and Battlecruisers can't be used for that purpose?
Sorry? Battleships never could be used for that purpose, they never had a CD.
Battlecruisers are same as cruisers with increased damage but reduced "effective armor". Glass cannons, that have it's own specifics in a fight. (and, sometimes, reduced speed. Those are not so useful as the ones with normal speed)
' Wrote:I wasnt arguing for or against anything. just think the rule needs better clarification as i dont fully understand what and when constitutes an RP demand if they can just say halt and then shoot. im not saying all pirates will do that, but some most certainly will. That being said , ive been playing for over 5 months and still dont know how to use preset messages. i tried once, got lost, then forgot about it
Well, for one, they have to say more than "halt," and they can't shoot if you stop moving at that point, so yeah--if you get shot after just a demand to stop, it's your own fault for not stopping.
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