This topic was opened in a thread in General Discussion - and while the topic was something that needed to be discussed, it was done so in a less-than-postive way (fueled by frustration, unfortunately)
As faction lead of the most prominent CR faction (running for officialdom), I wanted to bring this topic up. I'm sure there are indie CR players who might be interested in this topic, and in general, I want this to be a discussion about an issue that has become apparent in our shipline - namely one ship in particular.
First off, I want to examine our shipline, and give an outline of my take so far.
Eros - for a LF, I can give no opinions, since I have no basis to judge LF's
Nyx - Has been rebelanced from its 85 version, into one of the better fighters in the mod - back in 85, it always won on looks, but it was essentially a slightly worse sabre, with a harder to hit profile - despite that, it was still a great performer in the right hands, and now even more so - for a VHF, It is easily my reigning favorite, and were lucky to have both a beautiful ship, and a great performance fighter.
Pytho - For a medium bomber, it does its job very well - while I tend to get blown up in bombers, I've always found the Pytho to be rugged, reliable, and solid in performance - never had any complaints. While ships like the barghest and kaichou can spoil you, the Pytho is a nice moderate, balanced bomber, and we're lucky to have it.
Hydra - For a gunboat, it's also a solid performer - while I've always been terrible in gb's, I've started to fly them again since TS\Z makes things much easier - and the Hydra, being both a strong, and very agile ship, is a dream to fly, especially against fighters.
Thanatos - As a medium cruiser, its shape is very nice, its weapons placement is very nice, but my inexperience with cruisers, having only flown Scylla's and KuDessies, makes it hard for me to give a valid appraisal of the thanny - All I know is what other people say, and that while its agility is sluggish, it is still a very formidable cruiser.
And now, the Kronos - the crux of the issue.
I gave the examples of our previous ships, because I wanted to set the tone - that being, CR has made out like a bandit in the topic of performance ships - while some it is specialized, its all good - the Kronos exists as the only real bad apple. And what are its main problems?
Hull and Size. Of which it has too little hull for its great size. This imbalance makes it pretty ineffective versus what its supposed to fight - mainly the Outcast Ranseur, and the Gallic Valor.
In comparison - the Kronos, by stats, is in the same class as the Sarissa and Elbe - the Elbe has one less gun, and 3k more hull - the Sarissa has 7k less hull, and the same amount of guns. It's betters include the Aquillon, with 23k more hull, and the same amount of guns, and 200+ cargo.
Now, the popular opinion among the current CR| faction is a longing for the Zephyr - not as a companion to the Kronos, but to replace the Kronos. I understand the desire for the Kronos was made by former =CR= in their want of a heavy battleship (since the Zephyr was woefully under powered vs the Ranseur and Sarissa) - however, in the wake of the finished product, the Kronos fills the role it was intended even worse then the Zephyr did - case in point: Enviroment. The Zephyr, manufactured by the IMG, was slim, and designed to easily be able to traverse asteroid fields - this made it ideal for fighting in Tau 23. The Kronos, being as big as it is, and the shape it is, has more trouble with asteroids then a Valor. This, from an inrp standpint, is a massive design oversight. From a mod balance standpoint, I understand that Battleships need balancing factors, one of which is limiting their ability to get around. I am actually ok with this, despite how frustrating it can be (like flying a Nephilim from Omega 3 to Omicron 74).
What CR would like:
Well, to put it simply, we want the Zephyr back. Here's my inrp reasonings: 1 - From a standpoint of cost, its hard to see CR being forced into diaspora from Tau 44, and at the same time having the ability to construct an all new battleship. From an economic and industrial standpoint, since the primary economic base was through their partnership with IMG (IMG supported CR economically while CR supported IMG militarily), having lost that vast supply influx, its unrealistic that they would spend MORE on a brand new, and bigger hull.
2 - From an over view of CR, it's always been a snub faction. The idea from its original roots as a BSG import, its always been the "launch vipers!" kinda group. From that perspective, a Heavy cap should fit a "battlestar" design ethic - which is the idea of a carrier-battleship hybrid. A heavy Carrier, if you will, or a Battle-Carrier. With the advent of Jump Drives and Docking Modules, that rp can indeed become a reality - however, cargo space becomes an important aspect of this. From my understanding, Docking Modules take about 300 cargo each - which is not an issue for the Kronos, since it can only carry a meager two docking modules.
Assuming the Zephyr was added back, considering its 85 stats were woeful in terms of even modern caps, it falls so short of the modern standard as to be unusable - for instance, it only has 600k Hull, and 14 guns, putting it dead last, beaten only by the Mako, with its additional 20k of Hull.
Balancing it up to Kronos stats, or even comparable with the Aquillon would be something we would ask for.
3 - If bringing the Zephyr back turns out to be an impossibility, a heaved upon sigh would be had, but that still leaves options. If that turns out to be the case, we would ask for the Kronos to be re-balanced somewhat. In this case, we would suggest considerably more docking module space, akin to that of an actual carrier - like the Aquillon, which has two carrier bays, and two heavy bays (Apparently both the Elbe and LAC have similar numbers of docking bay slots), as well as an additional 200 cargo space.
If adding Docking Slots is not an option, we would ask that the ship be balanced appropriate to the Ranseur and Valor, in terms of hulls stats and guns slots.
Thats my outline - This is mainly a topic of discussion, since trying to reach the devteam on skype has proven to be unreliable (since Blodo wont answer my pm's).
As the guy who has been testing the shared CR| Kronos againat Valors in Conneticut (cap8'd) I found it couldn't stand up. Not a chance. Kiting? Hello, Forward Gun! Strafe was poor. Tanking? Only chance waa to get below the Valor, but no way to get there intact.
Missiles might work, but the shape still betrays it, as the missile slots are not the best.
So, as the guy who tested Concordia, as well as one who has flown Valors, the Kronos needs a massive buff. It can't kite, can't tank.
So, /appeove for the requested buff.
And, Blodo hasn't responded to my forum PM either Dane >_>
I love the Kronos. I gave plenty of reasons for which it is the way it is in previous threads on this topic.
I do agree however, that considering the current position of the faction, the Kronos and the Thanatos existing take things a bit too far. However, don't most things in this game do that?
Those two ships being the main reason for which the previous faction didn't disband pre-.86, I am very much against the Kronos being replaced with the Zephyr, or heaven forbid, bringing back the Argus.
I said this before, but the Kronos was -never- meant to be on par with the Ranseur. It was made with the Sarissa as its main opponent. If you want to take on Ranseur's, bring a Pytho with you, pointing again to the fact that the ship was made to fit the idea we were following at the time, that no capital ship flies -alone-. I'm not sure why you don't think this isn't valid anymore.
Me and Mara tested the Kronos against the Ranseur and in the hands of the professional insane maniac, it held its ground. In mine, not so much. However, this shows that it works as intended.
I did ask for a +50 buff to nanobots/sb, +50 damage on the secondaries, and some 20k buff to the hull after we tested it from Blodo, but i didn't get any replies regarding it.
Also, fyi, the Kronos was intended to be a carrier, the launch bays on the side were turned into windows' when Doom decided the old 'Battlestar-wannabe' idea ran its course.
Don't change it back to the Zeph, I spent 2 years waiting to fly the damn thing.
Zephyr was a nice ship, and it could perform well, even with its horrible stats...
Also, what do you expect from Colonials?
to be some sort of "fight all, win all" faction?
It is beyond ridiculous for Colonials to have ANY kind of ship short of a bomber that can stand up to casts and gauls, especially after the "split" with IMG, and the vast resources of the Taus...
Honestly, you should be happy to have a large cap at all...
Even if the Colonials are a small nation, they have less funding then even the BHG, hell, the place they now inhabit isnt actually "miners heaven"... You lost lots of men and ships, not to mention capitals, when Gauls came knocking on your door. Whatever caps you have left should be weakened hulks, very few in numbers (official faction only) and you would have a serious problem to keep em running and fueled.
Also, your system is saturated by freelancers, pirates and opporunists. So dont come say you have no "internal" problems either.
I'm against the CR getting 2 battleship class vessels for the same reason that I'm against the HF getting a battlecruiser: Minor factions shouldn't be getting large caps. I could get behind the Zephyr -replacing- the Kronos (making the Thanathos the primary anti-cap vessel of the CR). The Thannie itself replaces the much larger Argus, which makes sense. Smaller package requires less resources, and is more maneuverable.
The Zephyr was one of the most agile caps in the mod though, with a rather small profile. That's why it had low hitpoints - at range it was difficult to hit. Kronos is much fatter and as a result, is more of a medium battleship then the light one the Zephyr tried to be.
Wide awake in a world that sleeps, enduring thoughts, enduring scenes. The knowledge of what is yet to come.
From a time when all seems lost, from a dead man to a world, without restraint, unafraid and free.
Mostly retired Discovery member. May still visit from time to time.
' Wrote:I could get behind the Zephyr -replacing- the Kronos (making the Thanathos the primary anti-cap vessel of the CR). The Thannie itself replaces the much larger Argus, which makes sense. Smaller package requires less resources, and is more maneuverable.
Thats basically what I'm suggesting AD
' Wrote:Now, the popular opinion among the current CR| faction is a longing for the Zephyr - not as a companion to the Kronos, but to replace the Kronos.
Before anything, I'll just put it out there that I've flown all the CR ships for hours upon hours, been in many situations with all of them and speak with experience. As well as knowing (and making some) the stat changes since they've been in the game.
-The CR snub line is quite well, apart from the Pytho.
-The Cruiser is a bit slow, but other than that it's awesome.
As for the real deal, the Kronos/Zephyr...
I must admit I was the one spearheading the ''bitch about how the zep sucks and should be changed'' group. I was wrong. So wrong. As the =CR= we had asked for a -heavy- (heavy, see that? heavy) battleship, what we got was some random generic ''medium'' battleship. Now, one of the main reasons to ask for a heavy battleship was because our main enemies (gallic royals and outcasts) fielded heavy battleships (dreads) like crazy, so we needed something at least as heavy as theirs. I don't think the balance team really put that into consideration (although that's somewhat biased since I think the balance team sucks and that they should all be changed).
So yes, the Kronos is quite good in the right hands, but then again, all ships are good in the right hands. The Kronos is just fit for more roles (but only with someone with somewhat pro skills). But when you compare it to the Zephyr, the Kronos should just be erased from the game. I keep headbutting a wall because of my stupidity in bitching so hard about how the Zephyr sucked. It did not. It had a very thin profile and was very agile for a battleship, could easily kite anything and kill a dread by itself with a little skill, and in group fights it was even better.
Kronos sucks ass. That's basically the end of it. From what I see, there was -very- little balancing involved in its making. It's massively inferior to the Ranseur and the Valor, the CR's primary enemies.
Bring back the Zephyr. I'll hardpoint it and turret split it.
So instead of re-balancing the Kronos, you'd rather bring back the ****ty Zephyr who would only work when spammed in at least 2v1 numbers because it was the ****tiest Battleship at the time, ooor bring it back and go through turret splitting, rehardpointing, rebalancing... because it doesn't make sense. If that's the case, why don't we throw out everything that doesn't make sense in this game, eh?
I hate the Zephyr, and I hate having all the time spent convincing Doom and the Devs that we're worth getting it thrown out the door because Dane wants to 1v1 Ranseurs in the 'i shoot Nyxes out of my ass' Zephyr.
![[Image: Hasshodo.gif]](http://sig.grumpybumpers.com/host/Hasshodo.gif)
![[Image: jeremy10.png]](http://i40.servimg.com/u/f40/16/80/35/65/jeremy10.png)
![[Image: rTrJole.png]](https://i.imgur.com/rTrJole.png)
![[Image: LJ88XSk.png]](https://i.imgur.com/LJ88XSk.png)
![[Image: ka0AQa5.png]](https://i.imgur.com/ka0AQa5.png)
![[Image: QwWqCS8.png]](https://i.imgur.com/QwWqCS8.png)
![[Image: v1zVWKX.png]](https://i.imgur.com/v1zVWKX.png)
![[Image: jKk7NOg.png]](http://i.imgur.com/jKk7NOg.png)
![[Image: 1iGGFXz.gif]](http://i.imgur.com/1iGGFXz.gif)