Obsidian Zoetic - Officiality Request

[Psymple]

So your home system is a system heavily contested by alien forces and those who wish to hunt them. And you have managed to not only fortify this location, but amass a fleet? Seems a bit shakey.

Also, what are you doing in Iota and 99? Defending one system is one thing, taking your 'fleet' into those systems would only serve to destroy your fleet.

I'm not too sure I like the line "In defense of Omicron Zeta" that leaves a -lot- open to interpretation in the system(Where do you draw the line in what actions are in 'defense'?), in addition to Zeta being a crossroads in the nomad worlds.

You've also listed ALG as a possible business partner. Not only have I never even heard of your group, afaik noone in ALG has encountered you either.

Edit: If the Nomads had the power to destroy Toledo something tells me a simple base wouldn't be able to stop anything.

I also don't really see why you need Liners. That's Orbital's job if anything. Liners are exceptionally expensive and if I see Zoners flying around hauling human cargo I won't be very happy. Orbital has enough problems attracting people without a second group shipping the same materials with a better diplomacy.

http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?...pic=132003
Here is our RP with ALG.

As to "amassing a fleet" we havn't
We have a fleet of Whales that were aquired from JZ disbanding.

As to "capital ships" we only have 3 Battleships, one from JZ disbanding, one bought on the open market and the third was our Colony ship brought for our first settlement of Zeta.
The only others are a single Corvo that was role-played as being restored on our station and a Fearless that
we are still role-playing being converted from a Whale.

The rest of our ships are mostly bombers and ospreys (ospreys we started role-playing construction of ourselves on MMF but it hasn't gone very far).

The Liners, that is an experiment of OZ's for when we start bringing Refugees to our new colony
from war torn places in Sirius, we will mostly be doing non profit events with them and currently
the only one we have was bought at a veeeery cheap price on the open market.

As to why isn't our home destroyed? We trade in Allies sir we live next to the Order homeworld and our first constructed base in Omicron Zeta was a forward Order base for the defense of Zeta. Further we have convinced an AI group to defend our people in return for our delivery of supplies to their forward base in Zeta.

In short, we are building forward outposts of our allies in Zeta so they they defend our space for us.

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Defense of Zeta yes... that is a rather lenient line and perhaps it is asking too much.
How we would use it?
Simple it would allow us to use force if someone we "asked to leave" decided they prefer to stay as well
as allow us defend our stations and people who are contracted to supply our bases whilst inside Zeta.

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I do hope that has answered all your questions but if not feel free to point out ones I have not answered, if this opens up more questions you wish to ask again feel free to ask.

Thank you.

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[Sayfog]

You've also listed ALG as a possible business partner. Not only have I never even heard of your group, afaik noone in ALG has encountered you either.

Well we put out an open business proposition for antone to supply terraforming gasses to MMF. What do you know, ALG started supplying us in a friendly way.

edit: ninja'€˜d by Psymple

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Last time around I was a Member of: K'Hara|[HF]141|PFI|BAF|LR-

[Agmen of Eladesor]

Reasons for own ID being:
A: We don't want to be responsible for all Zoners.
B: We don't want to deform "Zoners" to our way of RP.
C: We don't want to force a competition between OZ and Pheonix's requests.

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Thank you all for your good luck wishes.
Cya in space.

From our interactions, this actually makes sense. If you guys hadn't been so darned bull-headed in simply flat out saying that you're allied with the Order - and not actually using typical Zoner diplomacy in then saying, okay, we're really not allied with them (but we're lying, you know it, we know it, and now we can all live in relative peace) - then we wouldn't have strained relations between you and the BHG|Core.

That was part of what I think was being lost in translation.

As it is, realistically right now we can't pop Murillo base simply because we don't have the player base in game at this time. We can drive you nuts, we can (and will) destroy your supply ships, because as far as we're concerned you're our enemies now.

But watch the meta-gaming and/or power-gaming. Dabadoru has been around for a long time, and is established. The Order couldn't crack it. Please don't pull the old - we've sent two ships over there to blow it up and now we're saying it's dead thing.

I could see you being an off-shoot of the Zoners - maybe an Order / Zoner cross. You should be hostile to Liberty, since you're allied with the Order. That's something on your rep sheet that needs adjusted. Also, if you're hostile to the main BHG|Core ID, you need to be hostile to all groups that use the BHG|Core ID. The 77th needs to decide whether they're Order or BHG - if they're going to use our ships, they're subject to our in game and in forum orders. They can't be both - that just doesn't work.

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Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.

[Daedric]

Reasons for own ID being:
A: We don't want to be responsible for all Zoners.
B: We don't want to deform "Zoners" to our way of RP.
C: We don't want to force a competition between OZ and Pheonix's requests.

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Thank you all for your good luck wishes.
Cya in space.

A: Merely being an official Zoner faction doesn't force you to represent all Zoners. I'd go as far as to say that no single faction can represent all Zoners.
B: Won't. You'd merely have some input as OSI and TAZ do on Zoner development.
C: I can understand this one, but I don't know if the admins will buy it as it is a work around on the 1 ID rule.

I'm the one who told you to go for it and I stand by what I said. I'm just commenting on the reasoning you gave. :P

Good luck!

You're already asking for your own ID before you even get approved as official?

No where in the rules does it say you can't or that it is impossible.

I also don't really see why you need Liners. That's Orbital's job if anything. Liners are exceptionally expensive and if I see Zoners flying around hauling human cargo I won't be very happy. Orbital has enough problems attracting people without a second group shipping the same materials with a better diplomacy.

Don't be happy then. OSI is already doing it and has been doing it for over a year now. I have a liner and I regularly (before this semester started!) ran human cargo from 49 to Erie and back.

There is nothing wrong with Zoners using liners, in fact; there is a passenger commodity designed specifically for Zoners. Nor are Liners exceptionally expensive, at least not all of them. In role play OSI has a Renzu as one of our corporate vessels along with a yacht. I have my prison liner (which funnily enough is sold on Gran Canaria, go figure!) too.

Merely because Zoners can use liners, doesn't make them a threat to OS&C. They're a large company servicing all four houses. Zoners would be servicing their own and perhaps some of the elite members of their closet partners (GMG, Order, IMG). Not to mention we'd be getting OS&C to bring peeps to our 'tourist attractions' too.

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[jammi]

Merely because Zoners can use liners, doesn't make them a threat to OS&C. They're a large company servicing all four houses. Zoners would be servicing their own and perhaps some of the elite members of their closet partners (GMG, Order, IMG). Not to mention we'd be getting OS&C to bring peeps to our 'tourist attractions' too.

I think gentlefood was talking about the ingame realities as opposed to the ideal lore status. Smaller niche factions have a very hard time recruiting when other, more robust groups do the same thing. Especially when the niche factions' advantages (for example Synth's foods, Orbital's contacts and Interspace's financial clout) mean little to nothing to the player groups they're interacting with.

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[Gentlefood]

Don't be happy then. OSI is already doing it and has been doing it for over a year now. I have a liner and I regularly (before this semester started!) ran human cargo from 49 to Erie and back.

There is nothing wrong with Zoners using liners, in fact; there is a passenger commodity designed specifically for Zoners. Nor are Liners exceptionally expensive, at least not all of them. In role play OSI has a Renzu as one of our corporate vessels along with a yacht. I have my prison liner (which funnily enough is sold on Gran Canaria, go figure!) too.

Merely because Zoners can use liners, doesn't make them a threat to OS&C. They're a large company servicing all four houses. Zoners would be servicing their own and perhaps some of the elite members of their closet partners (GMG, Order, IMG). Not to mention we'd be getting OS&C to bring peeps to our 'tourist attractions' too.

You've mistaken my inRP complaints and my ooRP reasons for the dislike.

ooRPly Orbital has a hard time attracting players. Zoners flying around with Liners hauling the same goods but with a better diplomacy makes attracting players that much harder.

inRP Liners are exceptionally, and quite possibly prohibitively, expensive. This isn't reflected ingame due to the nature of the mod.

You've stated the Prison Liner as a counter example. I somehow don't think those would be the 'goto' liner of choice should they use Liners, but perhaps I'm wrong.

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[Hone]

A: Merely being an official Zoner faction doesn't force you to represent all Zoners. I'd go as far as to say that no single faction can represent all Zoners.

No where in the rules does it say you can't or that it is impossible.

I disagree, an official faction should represent that faction, its all one faction, even zoners, when you shoot one NPC, they ALL turn red to you, the official faction should reflect this. Thats why OSI and TAZ getting their own ID was good, now they can have seperate diplomacy without splitting up the Zoner faction.


I know, thats why I asked, rather than saying; "You cant" Its just, as many threads have said; unlikely for an unestablished faction, to be considered deserving of their own ID.

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[Daedric]

You've mistaken my inRP complaints and my ooRP reasons for the dislike.

ooRPly Orbital has a hard time attracting players. Zoners flying around with Liners hauling the same goods but with a better diplomacy makes attracting players that much harder.

inRP Liners are exceptionally, and quite possibly prohibitively, expensive. This isn't reflected ingame due to the nature of the mod.

You've stated the Prison Liner as a counter example. I somehow don't think those would be the 'goto' liner of choice should they use Liners, but perhaps I'm wrong.

I think you're not understanding the actual problems that Orbital and the like face. Zoners flying liners hauling the same goods doens't make attracking players harder for Orbital. The fact that Orbital is built around hauling a small number of goods in which the profit margin is not all that great compared to ore and regular cargo is the problem.

In role play some liners are expensive. Do read the infor card on the pilgrim and the prison liners. Neither are super expensive.

The OZ are following a similar role play avenue that OSI is - we're role playing that we're moving more and more Zoners out into the further reaches of Sirius. Using Liners and regular transports to that end. The prison liner and pilgrim liner are the perfect choices (though we suffer a tech nerf with the pilgrim).

I disagree, an official faction should represent that faction, its all one faction, even zoners, when you shoot one NPC, they ALL turn red to you, the official faction should reflect this. Thats why OSI and TAZ getting their own ID was good, now they can have seperate diplomacy without splitting up the Zoner faction.
I know, thats why I asked, rather than saying; "You cant" Its just, as many threads have said; unlikely for an unestablished faction, to be considered deserving of their own ID.

You can disagree all you want. As I and all of the other Zoner leaders I know and almost all of the people who role play Zoners regularly (indy and faction) agree that no single faction can represent all Zoners. This is due to Zoner lore and how Zoners are set up in game.

Even before TAZ and OSI had our own ID we didn't represent all Zoners - nor could we.

While for almost all other factions it is possible to represent the entire NPC factions - Zoners are one of the few that it isn't possible nor does it even jive with Zoner lore.

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[Psymple]

This is quite a wall of text, excuse me.

From our interactions, this actually makes sense. If you guys hadn't been so darned bull-headed in simply flat out saying that you're allied with the Order - and not actually using typical Zoner diplomacy in then saying, okay, we're really not allied with them (but we're lying, you know it, we know it, and now we can all live in relative peace) - then we wouldn't have strained relations between you and the BHG|Core.

That was part of what I think was being lost in translation.

As it is, realistically right now we can't pop Murillo base simply because we don't have the player base in game at this time. We can drive you nuts, we can (and will) destroy your supply ships, because as far as we're concerned you're our enemies now.

But watch the meta-gaming and/or power-gaming. Dabadoru has been around for a long time, and is established. The Order couldn't crack it. Please don't pull the old - we've sent two ships over there to blow it up and now we're saying it's dead thing.

I could see you being an off-shoot of the Zoners - maybe an Order / Zoner cross. You should be hostile to Liberty, since you're allied with the Order. That's something on your rep sheet that needs adjusted. Also, if you're hostile to the main BHG|Core ID, you need to be hostile to all groups that use the BHG|Core ID. The 77th needs to decide whether they're Order or BHG - if they're going to use our ships, they're subject to our in game and in forum orders. They can't be both - that just doesn't work.

Essentially I am trying to RP realistically as I feel my chars would, it was quite clear if we lied to you
it would make peace... but currently I am running O'hanna as a more gungho than diplomat, OZ are not
clever when it comes to diplomacy (but they are learning) we mostly say what we think instead of what we
should...

As to the BHG situation, that base was built to be shot (most of our bases are built to be shot)
and I am desperately looking forward to the new Zeta hopefully the new distance between Core
and Order (very closer) will draw more indies and thus primaries to the warzone that is Zeta.

Maybe this will force us to change our diplomacy, currently I do see more "what is on the server"
as opposed to "what is in the lore", I am sorry it is one of my faults. Perhaps we do need to sit down
and talk about our actions with those that it effects a little more closely... My only excuse I can give
is every-time I have tried I have received "your an indie, go away."

Our current relations with liberty is "we don't really go to liberty".
I have been caught in Alaska a few times but every-time my trader has
given bats to the badly damaged nomad farming lib dreads in exchange for
their silence...
Our rep sheet is an attempt to show our thoughts of others, not theirs on us
I imagine we are being added to KOS list as we speak by LN.:)(im fine with that)

The 77th... well... they are the 77th, they seem to just do as they please.

As a final note most of our ships are repped as hostile to BHG NPC's but a problem I
am having to face is with BHG and BHG Core indies.
The problem being that they role-play with us as Zoners and thus "friendly/neutral"
as much as I am against power-gaming I am not to ooRP tell them to shoot me as
we are at war... Thus we role-play great-fully surprised at their naivety and carry
on as quickly as we can.

A: Merely being an official Zoner faction doesn't force you to represent all Zoners. I'd go as far as to say that no single faction can represent all Zoners.
B: Won't. You'd merely have some input as OSI and TAZ do on Zoner development.
C: I can understand this one, but I don't know if the admins will buy it as it is a work around on the 1 ID rule.

I'm the one who told you to go for it and I stand by what I said. I'm just commenting on the reasoning you gave. :P


Good luck!
No where in the rules does it say you can't or that it is impossible.

I disagree, an official faction should represent that faction, its all one faction, even zoners, when you shoot one NPC, they ALL turn red to you, the official faction should reflect this. Thats why OSI and TAZ getting their own ID was good, now they can have seperate diplomacy without splitting up the Zoner faction.
I know, thats why I asked, rather than saying; "You cant" Its just, as many threads have said; unlikely for an unestablished faction, to be considered deserving of their own ID.

Whilst I understand your view I am more leaning towards Hone on this one.
The way we are RPing OZ is so naive when it comes to Diplomacy due to being
so new on the block, not to mention they are now being lead by their cheif of security.
Not to mention their Order relations...

I feel we are already stepping a little too far from the "Zoner Path" and this is something
I really wouldn't feel as comfortable doing knowing I represented the "Zoners as a whole".

(Or at-least whilst some people may perceive we are representing as a whole, as at
the moment OZ falls somewhere as Agmen said between Order and Zoners, we are
a refugee trading group with a small militia of security forces who have gotten
messed up in a big old war.)

As I have said many times, we are in no rush we are just making our intentions clear that
we don't want to go official on a Zoner ID if that means we have to wait a little longer its
not too much of a problem.

In role play OSI has a Renzu as one of our corporate vessels along with a yacht. I have my prison liner (which funnily enough is sold on Gran Canaria, go figure!) too.

I noticed that the other-day, someone should expect an order to be placed by OZ.:)

Again thanks for all the good wishes/good questions (both are appreciated)
feel free to ask more.

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Ninja edit

The fact that Orbital is built around hauling a small number of goods in which the profit margin is not all that great compared to ore and regular cargo is the problem.

Whilst I didn't really wanna get drawn into the Liner argument, this is essentially
exactly as I see it and my experience as I was checking liner routes/prices.

Currently people commodities in disco lack behind due to anyone being able to
carry them despite what their ship is (whale carries more people than liners) and
the fact they sell for much worse than most other commodities. If you
want to make a profit with a Liner you need to be inventive.

(Move passangers to Bretonia as an Outcast, take 5x as much cardamine as passengers
and when someone stops you tell them the law says you can have 5 units per person
as personal consumption.)

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[Daedric]

Whilst I understand your view I am more leaning towards Hone on this one.
The way we are RPing OZ is so naive when it comes to Diplomacy due to being
so new on the block, not to mention they are now being lead by their cheif of security.
Not to mention their Order relations...

I feel we are already stepping a little too far from the "Zoner Path" and this is something
I really wouldn't feel as comfortable doing knowing I represented the "Zoners as a whole".

(Or at-least whilst some people may perceive we are representing as a whole, as at
the moment OZ falls somewhere as Agmen said between Order and Zoners, we are
a refugee trading group with a small militia of security forces who have gotten
messed up in a big old war.)

As I have said many times, we are in no rush we are just making our intentions clear that
we don't want to go official on a Zoner ID if that means we have to wait a little longer its
not too much of a problem.

Hone's line of thinking is that Zoners can be represented by a single player faction. I'm not argueing that OZ has its own spin on how to role play Zoners; we all do. I'm saying that there is no problem in you becoming official and using the regular Zoner ID and not representing ALL Zoners. No signle Zoner player faction ever has. Doubtful one ever will. Due to reasons both you and I know (What works at Freeport 5 doens't work at 6, Fivers will favor Corsairs over Outcasts in any conflict due to their location, etc etc).

No where does it say that official factions represent the entirety of their NPC faction. It is an option. Something I think Hone doesn't know or doesn't agree with.

I noticed that the other-day, someone should expect an order to be placed by OZ.

Again thanks for all the good wishes/good questions (both are appreciated)
feel free to ask more.

We don't build 'em. I was merely pointing out that they are sold there. Prison and Pilgrim liners are older designs that are cheaper to build compared to the newer ones and many of them are likely just refitted with new tech as it comes out. My liner used to be used by OS&C and was moth balled, it was purchased by OSI from a third party who had acquired it and we retro fitted the vessel for our own purposes.

Anyways. I've said my peace. I don't want to argue and stuff in your thread, so I'll take my leave.

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