(08-23-2013, 08:04 PM)UK1 Wrote: Oh my god now we got people quoting the flaming bible....
Are you f**king kidding me here !!!!!!
Really, that was the final straw. Flaming other peoples views, and it even proves a good point. Or what, are you gonna suddenly dislike homosexuality because of opinions and points? Don't do it.
Good to see you're going to attempt to makes changes once they're back.
Also you can't get an alternative 'material' for cloaks, you NEED nomad remains. Just don't get caught.
Oh and one more thing to improve on. Your crappy attitude to other views, please.
This drama was dumb to begin with.
Am I the only one who noticed that Anaximander was more or less siding with the ZA when he sarcastically quoted the OP and Jesus?
From what I saw the ZA are maybe not what you would call "experienced discovery players", but they seem to be a lot more reasonable. But they sure arent worse than the people who have been trying to beat them up. Funny how its always the same people who jump on the "lets beat these guys up" bandwagon. Looks like you couldnt beat these guys up this time. And when you couldnt you had their bases de-activated. And when that still wasnt enough you want to take away the zoner caps.
Lets take a look at how this started.
This started when the ZA built a base near the jump hole to stop the nomads from using O74 as a highway. And to protect Theta, since the only other way to get to Theta would be Gamma.
You know very well that this is how it started. We blew their first attempt at building that base up together, I think you were on Ka'rena. A lot of people felt that the ZA are were interfering with their own sense of importance. The nomads, new and old, didnt like that they couldnt get through o74 anymore, and didnt like that it was what they saw as a second rate zoner faction that kept them out. The Order, because it showed that the Order was weaker than the ZA, because the ZA were doing more to stop the nomads than they were. And so also felt some of the other zoners who thought they were terribly more important than the ZA.
Before you say it... no, I'm not in the ZA. The only times I met them was when I fought them as a nomad VHF or bomber in Iota, O99, Zeta, O74, Theta. They often used caps, which the people who love to kill players hated, but which I actually like, because I focus more on survival than on blowing other people up. Anyway. Some people felt pissed of at them, largely because they were actually something that they wanted to be but couldnt because of lack of activity: a significant power in the omicrons.
So, Mr Omicron saw that they had some nomad stuff. Big woop. You cant fly through the omicrons without that stuff ending up in your hold. You need them to build base stuff. You pretty much cant build bases stuff without metagaming, goind oorp, or doing some really weird RP. Thats how the base system was made. Cryocubes from Gallia, nomad stuff to build cloaks.
But Mr Omicron is actually quite happy that he found it. Now he can start a campaign against the ZA who he hates and who the same old kind of disco-experts hate. Same guys that jump on any beat-them up bandwagon.
Leave this until i have sorted some things out, then you may comment as you wish, or if i ask for your input. This may have been open to your comments to begin, BUT NOT RIGHT NOW!
As for UK1's latest post.
Quote:Anyways I've been looking into this whole matter and taking into consideration what all have said the ZA are looking into
an alternative rather then using nomad remains for cloaking research and equipment development...
As has been said, there is no alternative. Thats not to say you don't wait a while, earn the orders trust again, help them out a little (in-RP this is), and then request permission to collect remains for cloaking devices and jump modules and what not. all you have to do is have a little patience.
Quote:The ZA group is gonna under go yet another restructure I think
This might be a good idea. Get rid of the warlike attitude. It doesn't fit Zoners. There's no problem being defensive of your people, and a little passive aggression, but Zoners are not going to go all out war on everyone they disagree with. Not to say you cant get a char on an ID/faction that supports those ideals.
Quote:To start all bases and there weapon platforms will be withdraw to a more suitable distance and set to a less hostile
stance.
The stations will be returned to Zoner iff which will help secure a lot of peoples safety according to there own iff reputation.
The system Lock down is and will be canceled.
The order won't budge an inch and neither will we but its unfair that the innocent are being made to suffer...
All stocks if any found will be removed and properly disposed of.
All agreeable. It's nice to see you agree to this, for a short time at least, until things calm down and your reputation with other groups changes to something good. To keep the bases like this is fine, so long as you consult the other Zoner factions within 74 before you do anything rash with them. I hope you do understand this.
Quote:Due to resent research an alternative material has been developed for use in the construction of the latest cloaking
technology...
This has already been covered...
Quote:And finally and most import further tutoring and role play training will be issued and over seen by a delegated person
of my choice....
I have no problem in assisting with this. Something good can come from this, it just takes a little patience and time, thats all i ask of you. A little patience and time to let things cool off, to allow you to work yourselves into better standing with the factions around you, then you can try asking for things that will allow you certain privileges.
I ask that RedEclipse (Phoenix lead) Post here, only suggesting things to add to this, or just that he agrees to what has been said.
I also ask the Lead of OSI for the same. (i appologise as I'm a little fuzzy on whom you are)
TAZ leadership is welcome to comment on what is agreed upon here. (A little fuzzy on this too. Once again, i appologise)
And Shizune, your comments please, although you might send them to me in skype really... no matter which.
I also ask that Moveit56 replies here, as the Leader of the Solar Runners, giving his thoughts on this so far.
(08-23-2013, 08:04 PM)UK1 Wrote: Oh my god now we got people quoting the flaming bible....
Are you f**king kidding me here !!!!!!
Really, that was the final straw. Flaming other peoples views, and it even proves a good point. Or what, are you gonna suddenly dislike homosexuality because of opinions and points? Don't do it.
Good to see you're going to attempt to makes changes once they're back.
Also you can't get an alternative 'material' for cloaks, you NEED nomad remains. Just don't get caught.
Oh and one more thing to improve on. Your crappy attitude to other views, please.
This drama was dumb to begin with.
You know very well that this is how it started. We blew their first attempt at building that base up together, I think you were on Ka'rena.
oh yeah I remember now.
o snap son I was foiled.
whelp, looks like my fun is over.
/nomorereplying
(08-22-2013, 10:50 PM)Shizune Wrote: Tel this is about finding a RP way to end this, lets please not start a blame game here if you will, I am looking for a way to end this, not for a way to start blaming each other
(08-22-2013, 10:24 PM)Shizune Wrote: I must point out Mow, its not the fact you cant RP, or the bases mainly
Its more along the line you DONT RP
I mean, yes, you RP, but how much?
You got no background story, no forward story, no story on who or why your bases live besides to lock people out (or in, in some cases)
(08-22-2013, 10:24 PM)Shizune Wrote: The main point is also you have no RP story to backup your faction unlike the other Zoner factions
(08-22-2013, 10:24 PM)Shizune Wrote: What im trying to say is that the ZA have none of these things, they attack, log hidden ships to do trade runs, yell at us (or troll in most cases), and even more over rarely RP anymore.
(08-23-2013, 12:20 AM)Shizune Wrote: Is this the same thing that happened in the USA server before crap hit the fan or am i just hearing crap again?
(08-22-2013, 11:02 PM)Shizune Wrote: Now please i asked you not to start a blaming thing here but clearly you have tried to bypass that by blaming the Order, i said RP end meaning how can we solve this now, not past actions, forget those, i want to know a way to finishing it with NOW actions
You certainly have a great sense of humor. I think Jesus said something about all of this, Matthew 7:3 and whatnot.
You have my sincere apologies.
I was attempting some humor and wasn't trying to be offensive to anyone's beliefs.
If I have offended you I'm truly sorry and you have my deepest apologizes.
(08-23-2013, 08:04 PM)UK1 Wrote: Oh my god now we got people quoting the flaming bible....
Are you f**king kidding me here !!!!!!
Really, that was the final straw. Flaming other peoples views, and it even proves a good point. Or what, are you gonna suddenly dislike homosexuality because of opinions and points? Don't do it.
Good to see you're going to attempt to makes changes once they're back.
Also you can't get an alternative 'material' for cloaks, you NEED nomad remains. Just don't get caught.
Oh and one more thing to improve on. Your crappy attitude to other views, please.
This drama was dumb to begin with.
Am I the only one who noticed that Anaximander was more or less siding with the ZA when he sarcastically quoted the OP and Jesus?
From what I saw the ZA are maybe not what you would call "experienced discovery players", but they seem to be a lot more reasonable. But they sure arent worse than the people who have been trying to beat them up. Funny how its always the same people who jump on the "lets beat these guys up" bandwagon. Looks like you couldnt beat these guys up this time. And when you couldnt you had their bases de-activated. And when that still wasnt enough you want to take away the zoner caps.
Lets take a look at how this started.
This started when the ZA built a base near the jump hole to stop the nomads from using O74 as a highway. And to protect Theta, since the only other way to get to Theta would be Gamma.
You know very well that this is how it started. We blew their first attempt at building that base up together, I think you were on Ka'rena. A lot of people felt that the ZA are were interfering with their own sense of importance. The nomads, new and old, didnt like that they couldnt get through o74 anymore, and didnt like that it was what they saw as a second rate zoner faction that kept them out. The Order, because it showed that the Order was weaker than the ZA, because the ZA were doing more to stop the nomads than they were. And so also felt some of the other zoners who thought they were terribly more important than the ZA.
Before you say it... no, I'm not in the ZA. The only times I met them was when I fought them as a nomad VHF or bomber in Iota, O99, Zeta, O74, Theta. They often used caps, which the people who love to kill players hated, but which I actually like, because I focus more on survival than on blowing other people up. Anyway. Some people felt pissed of at them, largely because they were actually something that they wanted to be but couldnt because of lack of activity: a significant power in the omicrons.
So, Mr Omicron saw that they had some nomad stuff. Big woop. You cant fly through the omicrons without that stuff ending up in your hold. You need them to build base stuff. You pretty much cant build bases stuff without metagaming, goind oorp, or doing some really weird RP. Thats how the base system was made. Cryocubes from Gallia, nomad stuff to build cloaks.
But Mr Omicron is actually quite happy that he found it. Now he can start a campaign against the ZA who he hates and who the same old kind of disco-experts hate. Same guys that jump on any beat-them up bandwagon.
Same old discoverygc as ever.
There are a small amount of people out there that have supported the ZA but prefer
to remain silent....
I'd just like to take this opportunity to thank this person for there kind words...
(08-23-2013, 08:58 PM)HarryHicks Wrote: And when you couldnt you had their bases de-activated.
That was completely unrelated, and either you're incapable of keeping up with recent events or you know that and are intentionally lying about it.
Quote:And when that still wasnt enough you want to take away the zoner caps.
This is willfully ignoring the fact that several people have never thought Zoners should have battleships because they don't have the manpower for them. I didn't object to the old Jinkusu as much, but I posted three years ago saying the Jinkusu should be limited and the Aquilon shouldn't even exist.
(08-23-2013, 08:58 PM)HarryHicks Wrote: So, Mr Omicron saw that they had some nomad stuff. Big woop. You cant fly through the omicrons without that stuff ending up in your hold. You need them to build base stuff. You pretty much cant build bases stuff without metagaming, goind oorp, or doing some really weird RP. Thats how the base system was made. Cryocubes from Gallia, nomad stuff to build cloaks.
But Mr Omicron is actually quite happy that he found it. Now he can start a campaign against the ZA who he hates and who the same old kind of disco-experts hate. Same guys that jump on any beat-them up bandwagon.
I hope that with this you don't want to put all the blame on Omicron in this situation.
ZA roam the Omicrons, eventually they end up meeting nomads, having to defend themselves from those jellies. They end up having nomad remains around themselves. What now?
Pick it up? Yes - No
ZA have chosen yes. Sure, why not? There is nothing wrong with that. What now?
Keep it for later use? Yes - No
They also have chosen to keep it, store them on their bases, knowing well who are the other two powers in the area who might frown upon them possessing such stuff. They eventually got revealed to Order, who explained that there is a quota of 10 units, which has been previously agreed upon by the rest of the Zoners, and demanded ZA to hand them over.
What can one possibly do now?
1.) Comply?
If they comply, they hand over the nomad remains for now, also ensuring the good relations remain the same. After that, they can ask for permission to restart nomad research and discuss conditions if Order accepts, or if denies, or even instead of asking, they may continue their business more covertly, more behind the scenes.
2.) Resist?
They cannot really resist the will of the Order on long terms given the differences between Zoners and the Order. Choosing so would totally screw up a long standing relation and would result in Order needing to take hostile action to remain true to their agenda: preventing nomad technology to get into the wrong hands.
This is just looking at stuff from an inRP point of view, and from this, ZA has pretty much had it's part in the escalation of this conflict, giving a ton of inRP justification for the Order to act as they did. There has been plenty of options to continue nomad research without Order harassing them.
Given the path they've chosen, I could even think of ZA has been deliberately promoting disturbance in the Omicrons, and then when this whole got out of RP, inside the community as well, effectively dividing it into two parts.
Those who joined the conflict early, even as spectators, seen a small group of Zoners defying Order authority even despite the rest of Zoners agreeing with Order, actively or passively.
Those who came to watch at a later point have seen these two already after a few quick wars (been missing out a lot), and either saw a Zoner group trying to negotiate with pity little things to offer, nothing close to what the initial demand from the other side was, which they continuously ignored, also hiding behind the excuse that they at least try (my point of view), or saw an Order, to whom anything being offered in exchange for peace and/or ceasefire, nothing is enough, and they are only in for the krieg (I've seen many argue based on a similar viewpoint than this).
Wow, this became kind of an essay... so in short, we can pull out any debate and conflict and pull the "conspiracy of bandwagons" on the bigger side, or pull the "everybody is stupid, I'm the only helicopter around" on the minority constantly and mindlessly defying what the rest of the community says. It seems that's how Disco seem to work, everybody got a stupid excuse to blame the other side and explain how morally/mentally wrong they are... Only if people would think before write...
The perfect summary of what happened. But i want to add something. The ZA did not stumble across nomad remains, they were sistematicly farming them. I have seen it in Omicron 99, i fought against them in my indie nomad alongside K'hara. There were 4 capitals, one of them jumping back and fourth between O99 and O74 with the remains.
The perfect summary of what happened. But i want to add something. The ZA did not stumble across nomad remains, they were sistematicly farming them. I have seen it in Omicron 99, i fought against them in my indie nomad alongside K'hara. There were 4 capitals, one of them jumping back and fourth between O99 and O74 with the remains.
And of course, comply with the Order would have been within appropriate Zoner RP, while in the meantime lying through their teeth to the Core.
As for why the rest of us are ignoring your request about staying out of this thread - first off, open forum. You want things handled privately, do it in PM. Secondly - faction that works in this area, and is directly affected by your actions. I mean - come on. Last time we had to go shoot up a bunch of Zoners, the Core ended up with a non-aggression pact with CORSAIRS! Think about that for a second - and the minor detail that it was done WITHIN acceptable RP BECAUSE of the actions of Zoners pissing everyone else off in that area.
In other words, while you may have issues with the Order issuing those demands in the first place, the ENTIRE responsibility for everything that has happened since then, both good, bad, and indifferent, belongs directly to the group not acting as they should have in the first place. If you can justify anything else without power gaming or meta gaming, then I salute you, because it's just NOT the Zoner way.
(11-21-2013, 12:53 PM)Jihadjoe Wrote: Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.