The current caps vs. bombers situation is forged from one concept of balance. Since a single player controls one ship, be it cap or snub, it was decided that for the sake of balance, a single cap (i.e. one player) s should not be rofflestomping snubs (i.e. multiple players) with relative impunity.
That said, I am really beginning to long for pre-capship-hardpoint-split era, especially since the Nova Torpedo actually now works as intended. If someone wants to concentrate on AA, so be it - he's easy pickings for other caps. If someone specializes in an anti-capship role, he's leaving himself open for bombers.
Even back in the days of solaris light BSes, it wasn't overly difficult to kill an AA cap with bombers. Instead of 2-3 you might need 3-4. Or 2 bombers and 2 gunboats.
(10-06-2013, 04:10 AM)Savas Wrote: That is a terrible idea in literally in every way. Caps are not supposed to be good at killing everything, nothing is; and any half decent cap pilot can easily deal with a few bombers, if a swarm of them shows up then it means you screwed up and stayed on the field too long without fighter cover.
A few being?
If it's anything more than 2 the BS is screwed.
I'm sorry but if 3 little ships can kill it why bother building the big ship?
Quote:
Quote:small numbers of bombers will now be managable (and more realistic).
More realistic, you're kidding right? If we're talking about realism (which is barely compatible with FL as it is) the easiest way to kill a battleship in say, the WWII era, was not to throw another battleship at it but rather planes such as dive bombers (Basically snacs), torpedo bombers (Cough, cough, novas) and kamikaze (needs to be added to the mod); or perhaps smaller more maneuverable warships that can move faster and out of range of the guns of a battleship, such would've been cheaper in terms of material and personnel investment and thus a more attractive and realistic order of battle to a commander facing multiple capital ships.
Yeah but BS had a role in those conflicts, they were for sieging enemy land bases and allowing aircraft to strike faraway targets. In Disco, there is no mechanic for limiting ship range by fuel, so there is no need to be carried close to the target. And bases are not balanced to be everyday combat targets; it takes a significant effort by many battleships to take one down. And we already have those smaller, faster, more maneuverable warships with guns that can outrange the BS, they're called cruisers.
Quote:tl;dr, bad idea - bombers are not op, stop complaining.
I'm not saying bombers are OP, I'm saying BS are UP and it would be possible to fix that without making BS OP.
You make both the energy drain from the webifier heavy and its slowing effect on the targeted ship significant. Now, the BS can snare a bomber that gets too close and kill it. But by the time it dies the BS is low/out of energy and must wait before it can do that again.
Now, the BS is safe from a non-believable attacking force (2 bombers) assuming he is decent.
But when the BS is attacked by 3-4 bombers, the BS is stil doomed but at least he might be able to take out one or two of the bombers before he pops.
To me this seems like better balance.
The BS will still have a hard time vs cruisers since the beam would not work on them. The BS will still have to choose whether to customize their loadout towards fighting cruisers or fighting other battleships. It will also enhance the BS's role in group conflicts. Choosing whether to focus on taking down the battleship or taking down his escorts will be a more important tactical decision.
(10-06-2013, 07:40 PM)Pancakes Wrote: Stop going an all prims/cerbs loadout then and put on some flaks. Bomber torps are in a limited number, drain him out of them.
I know there are flaks (and I have them), but imagine BS vs BS and Bomber. I'm just try to point out that battleship is rather designed to fight other, equal or smaller caps. But bombers? These should be pwnd by fighter escort or another vessel that is designed to take these down. There is old saying: "If something is for everything, it is good for nothing."
) Buddy i have the Bomber to kill that enemy, whi should i get a cap to kill it!? i dont need the cap, understand ? i have the bomber!!! with 3 bomber u can do preety much anything! so whi the cap for? Disco disco zohan, go go,
If no caps why fly bombers? Lets all just revert ^to the vanilla freelancer with only fighters. /sarcasm
Why should you get a cap? Because if he have a few flaks you won't be able to even come close to him to fire a SNAC, and he'll take out your novas with ease too.
The bomber was implemented to kill caps? someone said, ok then whi the caps were implemented? To Kill What Big targets?
i'm not fixed on BS and if i do as you say to mount 6 flaks then that would make it a oversized slow moving fighter right(a troll one perhaps)? like sindroms did some month ago; what about the other caps like cruisers an Bcruisers? only the BC can mount 1 flak at the cost of agility and with that 3 bombers tears him apart be it komainu or labc; i do know that bs light turret on cruiser dont fit 800cerbs,secondaries nor solaris speed,so yes i always use flak; solaris u say, well at 1k in 3 or even 2 bombers there really is no need to get that close..just watch him switching target and even if it tricks you just hit the thruster ..3.03 nor solaris will not get the bombers shield down if he thrusts aside..problem solved...wow a lot of skill in that!!! but let's get back to Reason Utility of ship classes, bomber preety good at anything; Cap- well cap good vs cap only; oh wait my mistake good as chat platforms also;Well ok that can be as well but u see there's nowhere on forum or ingame announcement to allow newbies that cap existence is just for Image,they re just not that playable..that would just spare us all of a bit of misleading i think
and by the way i never said that i am an easy prey for 2 bombers imagine for 1...i can still kill some folks around plus i'm not that bad in fighter too, so that's not whi i posted here, i just dont like OMGs and Lol at every 30 sec ,,,so dam* boring.....and liriliri (it is true that once you hit a fighter with a mortar?)) wow now that's a lol, was he fall asleep?) just keep it low on bravery comments...it would be appropriate.
(christ,u still didn't understood the sleeping part, it wasn't a question really but an assumption)
Anyway i'm not trying to ruin no one's fun as it may seem so I'm done here!
Remove bombers. Remove dedicated gunboats. Remove the ability from snubs harming caps and vice versa. Balance snubs against snubs, balance caps against caps, make caps cost as much as snubs. Two different worlds for two different types of gameplay.
--------------
PSA: If you have been having stutter/FPS lag on Disco where it does not run as smoothly as other games, please look at the fix here: https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthrea...pid2306502
----------
(10-06-2013, 07:40 PM)Pancakes Wrote: Stop going an all prims/cerbs loadout then and put on some flaks. Bomber torps are in a limited number, drain him out of them.
I know there are flaks (and I have them), but imagine BS vs BS and Bomber. I'm just try to point out that battleship is rather designed to fight other, equal or smaller caps. But bombers? These should be pwnd by fighter escort or another vessel that is designed to take these down. There is old saying: "If something is for everything, it is good for nothing."
) Buddy i have the Bomber to kill that enemy, whi should i get a cap to kill it!? i dont need the cap, understand ? i have the bomber!!! with 3 bomber u can do preety much anything! so whi the cap for? Disco disco zohan, go go,
If no caps why fly bombers? Lets all just revert ^to the vanilla freelancer with only fighters. /sarcasm
Why should you get a cap? Because if he have a few flaks you won't be able to even come close to him to fire a SNAC, and he'll take out your novas with ease too.
and liriliri (it is true that you hit a fighter with a mortar?)) wow now that's a lol, was he fall asleep?) just keep it low on bravery comments...it would be appropriate.
Anyway i'm not trying to ruin no one's fun as it may seem so I'm done here!
It just takes you to luring them into a trap, where you then get close and launch a mortar. Oddly, the speed of the mortar is accelerated and can connect if you're quick.
I certainly would not design a large battleship with hundreds of crew that would be exploded by snub craft. A battleship solaris gun uses enough power to operate 27 vengence lasers, I would just make room for those tiny things on my battleship instead... what is more deadly, 1 BS solaris or 27 VHF fighter guns?
Yeah but balance. Things do have to be complementary to one another and work from a game design perspective. Battleships can't kill everything I guess...well they can kill everything, they are just not good at it. I do think battleship VS battleship fights should last longer though
(10-06-2013, 07:57 PM)Toji-Haku Wrote: I just pointed out scenario, where two caps meets, but one cap has bomber on its side. Which one wins then? The outcome is simple, the situation favours the side with additional bomber.
Learn cap skill folks, 1 BS can take out or escape 3-4 bombers. 1 good cruiser can do even better. People think that just because they spent a ton of money they should be "auto awesome." When in fact is still takes as much practice as learning to be an ace on a snub, you just gotta put in the time baby!
How about docking bays could unleash 3-4 NPC mission-like snubs? Lvl 20-22? One bay model would support VHFs and one for bombers, so you can have both on your carrier.
Fully equipped snubs would be available as any ammo at any base, as we need more cash flow on Disco. Price? A million per snub, hmm?
Quote:How about docking bays could unleash 3-4 NPC mission-like snubs? Lvl 20-22? One bay model would support VHFs and one for bombers, so you can have both on your carrier.
Thisthisthis. Carriers should fulfill their purpose. And I'd say snubs should be top-notch- TCD, class 9 guns, firestalker, au8, full bats/bots, etc.
Quote:Learn cap skill folks, 1 BS can take out or escape 3-4 bombers. 1 good cruiser can do even better. People think that just because they spent a ton of money they should be "auto awesome." When in fact is still takes as much practice as learning to be an ace on a snub, you just gotta put in the time baby!
YES - if the bombers are really new at game you may have luck they come in weapons range!
but at the moment a bomber fires the 1 st of his 60 novas at a cap from 1500 range - the flaks are useless within their range of 1100 - then the captain of the BS switches to a setup of 8 solaris (range 1800)- but useless, too cause the bomber already turned round thrusting away - now you can try to put out the nova (works sometimes) - or you can try to throw some countermeasures (works sometimes,too) - within these few seconds you hear the message "incoming torpedo" (the 2nd one)
FACT: you have no chance if the bomber captain keeps range
possible balancing:
- increase the time for lauching torpedos
- increase the range of flak
- limit the number of torps