(10-07-2013, 08:46 AM)Plan-B Wrote: FACT: you have no chance if the bomber captain keeps range
FICTION*
You just might not be good enough
...too harsh?
ACTUALLY: Here's a good example of caps>bombers. Note the CD technique
NubCapPilot: "But Veygaar, you forgot about when a BS is all by himself, what then?! We should be able to win!"
Veygaar: "If you go out in a Battleship alone you have already set yourself for failure by failing to comprehend your vessel's role and purpose. BUT with a good pilot you should still do fairly well. Train train train and when you think you're done... train some more."
(10-07-2013, 09:04 AM)Veygaar Wrote: NubCapPilot: "But Veygaar, you forgot about when a BS is all by himself, what then?! We should be able to win!"
Veygaar: "If you go out in a Battleship alone you have already set yourself for failure by failing to comprehend your vessel's role and purpose.
Everyone has a different opinion of what their role and purpose is. I'd like to know yours, since you seem so sure that yours is correct.
Battleships are unquestionably good at 2 things.
1) shooting targets that don't move
2) shooting targets that do move but are stupid enough to get close
But
2 will never happen because pretty much everyone knows better than to get close to a battleship, or to let one get close to you.
So that leaves us with option 1. But if your battleship is only good for killing the enemy's battleship, and the enemy's battleship is likewise not a threat to your other ships, why would either side bother fielding a battleship?
As for going out alone.. I'm sorry but that argument just doesn't hold water. Maybe it works for Liberty, Rheinland, Bretonia, Sairs... but for pretty much everyone else, with the community being this small and spread out amongst factions/systems, good luck trying to find people to group with.
And so, if you're going with the argument that these ships should only be effective in large group battles... there will be very few opportunities to use them -> no reason to buy one -> no reason to accumulate billions of credits -> no need to trade -> the holy trinity of police/pirate/transport falls apart -> mod dies.
Therefore battleships must be fun, useful ships, that one can use whenever, if for no other reason than to help keep the mod's gears turning.
Hey, a thread about caps and I haven't posted my stupid coments here! OMW to fix it!
Well, don't throw a tomatos into me, but... It's ok with bombers and caps now. Srsly.
Problem with players here. If we would take 5 players... 4-5 of them will be battleships (including me). Honestly... such formation is usefull against only same amount of supportless battleships.
The correct placemnt would be 1 battleship, 2 cruisers, 2 gunboats. And battleship should never do " Enemy fighter in range, charge all guns and kill it!" Actually, battleships should be last ships, which would open fire on smaller target. Gunboats should be covering battleship from bombers. If they can't do it, they can call cruisers to aid them. And only, when few bombers evaded cruisers and GBs, and reached bs, then it should open fire in self defence.
Another point: we have ideal caps, and BS even more ideal then cruiser or gb. Ideal, I mean, it has no critical components (cruisers and GBs has thusters, which meas survival for them). Best example is SW EaW (Star Wars Empire at War), where bombers die fast to fighters and gunboats, but very easely disabling critical components of capital ships, making them even vulnerable.
Here, you can't disable BS's engines, and it won't go anywhere. You can't disable sensor array, so player wont be able to sellect any object in space, you can't blow up navigation block, and map will turn unawailable. Imagine, how long, you will be searching for JH to Magelan in Leeds, with no map and unable to sellect object?
Yes, ofcrs, there are sheild, thusters, and guns, which can be blown up, however... it's much easer to "hit into body" than subtargeting equipment, and then aiming into it. As personal experience... such tiny job, with disabling ship's equipment, appearing when it's 1 vs >2. Like bomber, fighter and cruiser vs gunboat.
When there are 6 BS... and 4 bombers, noone care about disabling sheild or guns, just pew them into body.
Making "proper" cap vs fighter balance would requer nearly complete overhaul of mod, reviewing every aspect from impulse and turning speed, till armor and amount of turrets for every capital ship and bomber.
Wana battleships, which can easely withstand 10 bombers and beat them- NP. RM BS can be such monster. In same time, having 3M default armor, 30 gun hardpoints, 5 min cruise drive charge time, 20m/s impulse speed, 3m/s reverse speed, 12Mil energy core, 200m/s cruise speed, 0 dodging ability, no blind zones. 3.5K absolute destruction zone, in same time max range for all non-mortar type weapons. 1.5 Bil cost.
In same time, Liberty Dreadnought, can have 1M default armor, 15 guns, 2 min cruise drive charge time, 50m/s impulse speed, 12m/s reverse speed, 6Mil energy core, 280m/s cruise speed, increased dodging ability, one-two blind zones.
Only way to deal with RM BS will be Mortars/Heavy mortars with 4K range. Costs 820M.
And victory or defeat will be matter of cruisers, gunboats, fighters and bombers.
(10-07-2013, 09:47 AM)Lonely_Ghost Wrote: Making "proper" cap vs fighter balance would requer nearly complete overhaul of mod, reviewing every aspect from impulse and turning speed, till armor and amount of turrets for every capital ship and bomber.
I agree that the mod should go in this general direction.
(10-06-2013, 12:13 AM)KAWISH-ALI Wrote: Capital ships are bees against bombers, please introduce a missile launcher class for caps faster then current missiles fast like cruise disrupt and can easily down bombers , i mean capitals are capitals cannot be destroyed by small crafts, its really annoying when you are hopeless and cant do a $%^ against small annoying craft. really . thanks .
There is a reason why its called a "BOMBER"
What? Do you want the BS to be the ultimate ship and nothing cant kill it? No. You get a ship class than when in a pair or in 3 can take on a BS and win.
Pretty straight forward.
No, i just want that BS can only be killed by some ships like its own size , by cruisers and BS's not by small ships, it doesnt make sense that 3,4 bombers kills your full fleet of 5 ,6 BS's one by one,and you cant do shit , thats kinda really annoying.
(10-07-2013, 10:46 AM)Omicron Wrote: "Bombers are designed to rapidly destroy large vessels, such as Transports and Capital Ships without the need for large expenses."
Works as intended.
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(10-07-2013, 10:44 AM)KAWISH-ALI Wrote: No, i just want that BS can only be killed by some ships like its own size , by cruisers and BS's not by small ships, it doesnt make sense that 3,4 bombers kills your full fleet of 5 ,6 BS's one by one,and you cant do ***** , thats kinda really annoying.
And you totally don't see any problem with a "full" fleet consisting of 5-6 BS?
As people have already said, it's working as intended: the only way to counter capspam, without doing capspam yourself, is by bomberspam.
Anyway, 3-4 bombers being able to destroy a fleet of 5-6 battleships doesn't speak good about the battleships' pilots ... I have noticed that quite often the capital ship being targeted by the bombers starts doing idiotic maneuvers, for example.
Maybe try to improve your flying skills before crying "OMG CAPS UP!!! GIEF UBER GUNZ NAO!!1!1!!" ?
(10-07-2013, 10:44 AM)KAWISH-ALI Wrote: it doesnt make sense that 3,4 bombers kills your full fleet of 5 ,6 BS's one by one,and you cant do ***** , thats kinda really annoying.
I was there few times, it was always terrible hard in the beginning. But, BS captains made it possible by following mistakes:
- no anti-bomber cover AT ALL. Just two fighters would win a battle for you. Or one. *waves to Yber*
- after being hit by few Novas, attacked BS got to evade and went too far from other BSs. They were providing pretty nice crossfire, but couldn't keep good covering formation
- accepting battle in clouds
RL capital ship is the finest weapon of war and every navy puts huge effort, time and money to train their captains. After finishing an academy with perfect marks, they actively serve on-sea for 20-30 more years before getting their own ship. Only few of them will prove good enough for commanding really big ships.