Zoners

[Eduard]

Excuse the offtopic I dare to exude but... can't we have like ONE zoner thread in the flood where we can post whatever we want regarding zoners ( Just like that My Little Pony Concentration Camp or whatever ) and make it sorta like a Zoner Concentration Camp Thread?

I mean... I reckon it would be better to have one flood thingie than seeing at least 2-3 of this threads spawn on a monthly basis and wriggle around nothing else but the same problems, questions, discussions, answers and STILL leading to no resolution exactly like walking in circles

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King Eduard is the greatest

[Trogdor]

4) Druen, I think it is you who has a distorted view of the spirit of the original NPC faction.
If you truly wished to go with the loosely-connected Freelancer model of Zoner, you would have to strip away everything that makes the Zoners interesting.
First of all, they probably wouldn't have been able to get enough people together to even take over the abandoned bases that later became Freeports... Let alone build any NEW stations. Where did Freeport 9 come from?
Our shipline would not exist.
OSI would not exist. There wouldn't be enough capital flowing, nor captains cooperating, for it to get off the ground, let alone function as it does currently.
TAZ would not exist. Your lore borders on the absurd (which is probably intentional, and if you had not started a thread to mock me, I would not be judging) But look at this. http://discoverygc.com/wiki/TAZ#History You guys started out with a single dude, and somehow got enough people together and built up enough money to buy a system in just 2 years? Really? You call my ideas ridiculous but this is apparently perfectly fine.
And, well, the Omicroners and Phoenix wouldn't exist for reasons that should be obvious.

I suppose you chose to misinterpret my words into me supposedly saying that there should be no Zoner factions and that Zoners should be freelancers. Which I totally never said, not even thought at all. All I said is that there shouldn't be Zoner OFFICIAL factions, because the concept itself doesn't make sense. Zoner factions shouldn't own systems or bases (except player bases because, well, they build those themselves), and there shouldn't be situations like currently in Magellan, where the relationship between Gallia and TAZ is influencing also every indie or unofficial Zoner getting caught in the mess.
I have nothing against Zoner factions, but they shouldn't be official, and shouldn't own anything except their ships, because that's now how being a Zoner works (and yeah, I played Zonerzonerzoner a lot in the past).

Hm.. I suppose I did misinterpret what you meant, then. Sorry. Certain others in this thread are making me a tad cranky.

However, I still disagree with you. The concept of an official Zoner faction WOULD make sense, IF we had an official faction that actually emulated, and attempted to represent the well-being of, the generic NPC faction. And not for the purpose of directing or having power over indies or whatever. But rather to say, this is someone who we (the Council) recognize as valuable to the Zoner community, and so he gets a seat at the discussion table. And this person can also be a messenger of the will of the Council, which again, individuals are free to go along with or ignore at their prerogative. Also, official factions typically do other nifty things, like help influence the progression of the faction's story when it comes time for an update. They organize events. They serve as a means of disseminating roleplay amongst the faction. (For ex, something happens in forum RP, but 99% of Zoners won't see it unless someone points it out to them, as it quickly gets buried under the pile of other roleplay that doesn't concern them.)

Also remember, being able to hunt ships that are using stolen tech is technically an OFFICIAL faction right. If we had no official factions, then we would have no one who could (legally) hunt down people using the wrong tech/id combos. This was more important back before we had the technerf system..


In regards to Zoners only owning their own ships and nothing else - Zoners value freedom, but one interpretation of freedom is the choice of whom you take directions from. If your character wants to join a Zoner faction that has a chain of command, and orders to follow, because they believe in what that faction does, that's their choice. And (some) stations need to have administrators - typically the stations where roleplay is likely to happen. How do you choose who among the community gets to be admin of a station, if you don't allow an official faction to make that call?

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[Sabru]

No, trogdor, this is not a thread to make fun of you and your opinions

Lets breakdown and analyze the 'idea' of a zoner 'house'.

First point: Location.

So lets take a trip round sirius and evaluate the possibilites.

I think you could rule both O-49 and O-74 out, for obvious reasons.

Lets begin in the Omegas:
you've got the Corsairs as the big power in the area. How would they feel if a zoner house suddenly popped up out of nowhere?

You've also got the Core around as well, along with the hessians et al.

Not to mention, Bretonia and Rheinland as well.

so lets strike the omegas off the list.

Now, on to the lower omicrons:

Here you have the Corsairs and Core, again, along with the Noms and the Order.

Hmm.... a zoner house in the omicrons? might be tough. lets strike the lower omicrons as well

strike the Sigmas straight away. thats GMG turf, along with the various other groups that frequent the area.

Now on to the Upper Omicrons:

Well, here you have the Outcasts. Not to forget the various groups that are either allied/friendly with the OC or are hostile to them.

And, of course, Kusari is nearby as well. So lets strike the Upper Omicrons as well.

Lets strike the nomad worlds as well, for obvious reasons.

Now, on to the Taus:

Here we have OC and Kusari, yet again, along with the presence of Gallia and groups like the Colonials, IMG etc etc.

Hmm... Seems a bit crowded to me. Lets strike the Taus as well

Hmm... whats left.... well there is the independent worlds squished between Bretonia and Liberty. Lets see about them:

Baffin - Well that belongs to TAZ.
Coronado - Home to Barrier Gate, not to mention the Colonial Republic's home as well.
Cortez and Magellan. well, I dont think anyone could really claim ownership of them.

Kansas - Well thats the Home of the Vagrant Raiders/ Natio Octavarium

Lets strike the Independent worlds as well.

Oh thats too bad. there doesnt seem to be any viable place for a zoner 'house'.

Second point: Leadership and Governance

How would it be done? a single appointed ruler? a "council" selected by the zoner community?

or would it be a 1 vote per person democracy?

Who would take part? all zoners? or only the few indies with delusions of Grandeur?

Im doubtful that it would have the support of the officials. that would be a blow to its credibility.

so how would diplomacy be done?

I think i've found enough holes in your delusional ideas for now. If you can come up with believable, and feasible, solutions on how this would work, people might no be so hostile to it.

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[SMGSterlin]

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[Haste]

http://freelancer.wikia.com/wiki/Zoners

Read this. Read the information about the bases. Read the rumors about them.

Zoners are simply not a group of capital-ship-building warmongers.

The 'lore' that supports them being anything like this was made up in a period where nobody gave a rat's ass about sensible roleplay or backgrounds in the first place. Zoner caps? Cool, new toys! Add them to the ship pack!

Gran Canaria should never have happened, either.

Vanilla Zoners, which I sure hope Discovery Zoners are heavily based on, merely had a few Freeports scattered around the place, with Space Hippies ("Make love not war", y'know) living on them.

Return to that, please. Then all these pointless debates can stop as well.

Edit:

Oh look, a whole thread devoted to making fun of me and my opinions. And wouldn't you know, almost all of the Zoner haters have shown up - we'd just need Haste to complete the set.

I just saw this, and was briefly entertained.

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[Jinx]

whats a space hippie?

that term pops up with zoners, gaians or other irrelevant factions quite often - but what exactly is it.

a vegan pacifist - or for the more conservative americans - maybe even a *gasp* liberal?


joke aside

zoners in vanilla are what DA calls "civilians who chose not to live by the core rules and preferred to make a living outside those bounderies"

good TV referrences "might" be: the crew of firefly, the engineers on camino in star wars ( yea - it has some benefits being remote to do as you like ), ryan of rapture in bioshock, but also ( up to a point ) RL examples of communities that try to make their own rules ( but usually still fall under the juristiction of the goverment - so it does not really apply )

but what are zoners really in terms of freelancer. - an unspecified group of placeholders that are needed by DA, cause it looked just too stupid to think of the vast edgeworld to supply itself. - so instead of corsairs and outcasts making stupid deliveries in their tiny little crafts, you had zoners doing it - in their tiny little ships ( which were still bigger - but nowhere near as powerful as the core traders )

- remember - core transport: 100.000 cargospace vs. dromedary, biggest zoner transport: 275 cargo ... which is still better than anything the core dwellers had - which was just snub sized.

disco inflated all those irrelevant factions ( that includes ALL the edgeworld factions including those that have ambitions to claim to be a house - like the hispanics or the communists etc. ) - if we go by vanilla - the sheer economical potential of the infrastructure ( ships and lanes ) totally dwarfs ANY of those edgeworld communities.

so yea - there is a reason why vanilla zoners only used dromedaries and Freeports had around 50-100 ppl - and crete was a barren rock and outcasts had no way in hell to populate the deathtrap they call their home cause they are infertile and probably also impotent.

you simply did not need bigger transports - not that you could afford to fill them up anyway.

zoners buy food at stuttgard - and its not like rheinland is stupid - they know that they ship it somewhere fishy. but hey - its just a freighter - right? - not like its a 100000 cargo behemoth docking - its just 275 units - no one will care.


so yea - disco blew all those nice little factions out of proportion - totally, but to be honest - that was long before 99.9% of you were playing or dared to write something on the forum - hence - before 4.82


does it make sense for them to have bigger ships? - lol, don t kid yourself - of course it makes no sense - it makes no sense for ANY faction other than the houses.

but is it fun to have them vs. not having them - i guess so. - so why argue about it if its more fun to have them than not to have them.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Haste]

"We don't have a lot of enemies in Liberty space, but we don't have any friends here. My ship got attacked by some crazy women calling themselves the Golden Chrysanthemums. They freaked me out, talking about how I was a male oppressor and such. Hey, the Zoners don't oppress anybody." - Lance Harper, Deshima Station

Space hippies. I'm not the only one reading that in a "stoner voice", right?

Edit: And I'm all for 'faction deflation'. I don't see why every faction needs to be big and powerful. We have the houses for that.

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[Jinx]

agreed - which faction will step up and declare a wish to remove their stuff? ( already did that for zoners btw. - but i don t remember any other faction besides houses to do the same step )

and it was a discussion with the old dev team ( not the current orange ppl ) to turn the zoner cap fleet into - well a different cap fleet that is more defensive and trade orientated. - but most of the former orange ppl have left - so who knows.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Aazalot]

(reposted)

I agree with at least a partial deflation, Zoner caps need a complete redo. Prehaps ONE capital ship thats made to be a moving freeport.

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[Echo 7-7]

(reposted)

I agree with at least a partial deflation, Zoner caps need a complete redo. Prehaps ONE capital ship thats made to be a moving freeport.

On the subject of fixing Zoner ship infocards...

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There was a sig here, once.