How to balance/remove/nerf Jump trading for real.

[Sath]

Lets just try to re-analyze the OP:

Make it so that any ship that has more than 1,900 cargo space cannot jump alongside a Jumpship using JD MK4.
>Barges and large transports can no longer jump trade
>JD MK4 can still be used to jump combat ships into battle, which was it's intended purpose.
Result: As said above, Jumpdrives can still be used for combat, which should be it's primary purpose.

Excuse me. Did someone die and make you god of Disco, so you can just designate purpose to the players playing here? We all play for varying reasons, just because someone uses the JD4 different than the way you use it does not make it any less valid.
Stop your crusade of removal to limit other people's use of the game under the guise of whatever illusion of nobility you might have.

And we can say goodbye to money-hungry anti-RP jump traders.

If you've ever made more than 1 mil in Disco, then saying this makes you a hypocrite.
Fact: There is nothing wrong with being "money hungry", as long as the methods to acquire it is within server rules, which it is. Jump trading is not harmful to the server either, jump traders are not destroying anything aside from your blue message. It is you who is harmful to the server in your nerflancer crusades to remove all the fun from the game in the false notion of "balance".
The result would be a completely balanced game devoid of any useful advanced equipment because those are considered "op"

RP

In RP, jump trading is the end-all, the epitome - the peak so to speak. In RP, your pirate would know that with his abilities, pirating a jump convoy would be almost impossible.

1) Space is dangerous
2) Space ain't fair. Your pirate knows that, and so should you.

Cant you just stop talking bullcrap all over? You told that it is easy to pirate jump traders, and when we got to know that you have never pirated at all, you are switching to insult him by various other means.

You seriously don't know to accept defeat in a debate, which you have no idea of, and yet, you are complaining. gg.

[Lythrilux]

Lets just try to re-analyze the OP:

Make it so that any ship that has more than 1,900 cargo space cannot jump alongside a Jumpship using JD MK4.
>Barges and large transports can no longer jump trade
>JD MK4 can still be used to jump combat ships into battle, which was it's intended purpose.
Result: As said above, Jumpdrives can still be used for combat, which should be it's primary purpose.

Excuse me. Did someone die and make you god of Disco, so you can just designate purpose to the players playing here? We all play for varying reasons, just because someone uses the JD4 different than the way you use it does not make it any less valid.
Stop your crusade of removal to limit other people's use of the game under the guise of whatever illusion of nobility you might have.

No one died to make me god of anything. I'm a player here, who also uses the forums. I have the right to speak my opinion on matters relating to the mod.
I'm mostly fine with the people who use the JD4 for combat purposes. They interact with other people when they use it, in military (and pirate if they can access it) engagements. Sure, it could be made CDable to balance it too. But Jumptraders? They use it for nothing other than to benefit themselves, to increase the weight of their pockets. Like I've said, this is an RP server. It is built on the foundation of interactions.

And we can say goodbye to money-hungry anti-RP jump traders.

If you've ever made more than 1 mil in Disco, then saying this makes you a hypocrite.

When I make my money, I RP with others. JM (flex)

Fact: There is nothing wrong with being "money hungry", as long as the methods to acquire it is within server rules, which it is. Jump trading is not harmful to the server either, jump traders are not destroying anything aside from your blue message.

How misinformed you are. Being money hungry promotes bad roleplay on the server. Just simply look at RS and their feedback to see what money hungry looks like when it is public.
FYI, when I pirate, I don't look for blues. I prefer cash because that's useful to me.
But Jump traders don't give me any interaction at all. No credits, blues or even RP because they just vanish as soon as you enter the system.

It is you who is harmful to the server in your nerflancer crusades to remove all the fun from the game in the false notion of "balance".

Or is it you because you simply stand in the way of progress, progress that would made disco better than it currently is? We can all point the finger at each other and claim we're all ruining the server in some way or another. In my opinion, it's better to just problem solve via discussion, which is what I'm doing.
And after arguing with you on different threads, I find your definitions of fun quite amusing.

The result would be a completely balanced game devoid of any useful advanced equipment because those are considered "op"

lolno.

RP

In RP, jump trading is the end-all, the epitome - the peak so to speak. In RP, your pirate would know that with his abilities, pirating a jump convoy would be almost impossible.

This is multiplayer RP server. There shouldn't be an end game in such a form.
Yes, pirating a jump convoy is almost impossible, because the Jump traders only have to use ooRP methods to decided whether they want to follow through with an encounter or not. Thus, we need to balance things around that.

And I ask a question to: What if everyone jump traded? Would piracy then become almost, if not completely, impossible?

1) Space is dangerous
2) Space ain't fair. Your pirate knows that, and so should you.

Indeed. Hence why you need to stop whining about how Jump traders need some kind of godly shield and should be liable to RP encounters like everyone else who plays on the server.

---

[Lonely_Ghost]

Indeed. But for Traders? Not so much. I don't believe Piracy and Trading should have equal forms of risk, however Traders have got it really easy for them right now.

As long I can call myself experienced trader, I have to compltely agree with Lythrilux here. There are tons, actualy, nah, Gigatons of things, which you could move for great money, especialy, if you aren't hardcore RP trader. There are nearly infinit numbers of alternatives for a traders. More or less skilled trader can avoid pirates pretty succssfully. Plus, even trading with simple commoduties, not ore, is very profitable. Money flow is very high, and only thing I could wish, I had at least 5% of such money in RL, I was making in game.

And to compare this with my small pirate experience, from my LR GB Spectrum, when you could find a nice company, including up to a Carrier, chasing you...

Also, JT requies a group of players, at least carrier, tanker, and hauler. Why not to make a trading convoy. One will be scout, two going to be haulers. Scout means almost save path ticket to traders.

[Knjaz]

Hell yes! I'm even for permadeath. One will think twice before logging his precious battleship/barge/etc, knowing it can easily become staflier.

Well, if it wouldn't make game into EVE-like environemnt (means, hunt down large and expensive targets and gank them as hard as it's physically possible), I'd be all up for it!
just make it so that a 1 billion worth battleship is cost-efficient enough against 1 billion worth of bombers/fighters. So you have a chance against 20 bombers/fighters, or against several cruisers.

And we have a deal.

I'm mostly fine with the people who use the JD4 for combat purposes. They interact with other people when they use it, in military (and pirate if they can access it) engagements. Sure, it could be made CDable to balance it too. But Jumptraders? They use it for nothing other than to benefit themselves, to increase the weight of their pockets. Like I've said, this is an RP server. It is built on the foundation of interactions.

There's no real use for JD4 for combat purposes. Telling that as a, relatively, experienced fleetcom.

Except for, possibly, 2 factions in the whole of Sirius. The ones with half of Sirius as their ZoI's.

[lIceColon]

Logging off or just taking an alternate route to avoid a pirate isn't as difficult as it sounds. Sure though, I can adapt to that (as a pirate). The system isn't balanced though, didn't you read my piracy thread?

That's cute, but if piracy were easy then ppl would stop trading. No trading then entirety of disco will collapse more or less. Both traders and pirates counter each other, traders have the lawful advantage and pirates have the firepower advantage.

Actually no not really, because piracy has much less of a risk.

Hah. I suggest you leave this thread and come back when you've pirated your first trader. In all seriousness, I'm giving you some constructive criticism, it's hard to take your arguments seriously.

Of course I've pirated traders in the past. Not a lot obviously, I eventually came to the conclusion that piracy isn't my thing.

That seems to contradict the JM app. Your statements and methodology seems outdated.

I suppose you missed the part on your own form that says "inRP". I wouldn't consider the few millions I nicked off traders adequate experience hence the statement.

plus you get to harass people. In return you don't get to blow up jump traders so what.

"waaaaaah, stop RPing space bullies!"
Ok, so that statement might have some truth, but like I said space is dangerous.

For pirates especially.

Indeed. But for Traders? Not so much. I don't believe Piracy and Trading should have equal forms of risk, however Traders have got it really easy for them right now.

Not so the last time I encountered Hone's Waran when I found out that beams were utter crap.
Bottom line, people who sacrifice cargo space/profits and $$ for cap 8 deserve their survival. People who take the time to organize jump trading and succeed deserve their survival.

(http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=116238) that allows a pursuer who has a jd to follow a jumped ship, which I think would be good enough for your nefarious purposes. You should consider it a more appropriate attempt at balance.
However Jump Trading is a cool feature and should not be removed.

Or
Balance it with CDable Jumpdrives, as well as implementing my suggestion. Both of which are 100x simplier than your suggestion.

Cruise engines are CD-able because you can restart them indefinite amount of times. You make JDs CD-able, then they deserve a serious buff in regards to fuel consumption or charge time etc. to balance out the weakness.
In contrast, my proposal takes a bit of programming which I'm sure some adventurous mod programmer will take on with enough support, and if it succeeds then it will be able to solve both the issue of jumping battleships and jump traders being "unpirateable".

Or, you know, take the simpler and more efficient solution instead of programming something entirely new.
Jumpdrives current have zero weaknesses. The balance is either making them CDable and/or doing the solution I proposed in the OP.

That's the problem with your kind, you're too afraid of new stuff. You don't have the mental capacity to visualize all these different ideas.
When I think of CDable JDs, I see a snub weaving through gunfire with ease and disrupting 2k fuel's worth of jump charging in mere seconds without the slightest bit of effort. Of course, no amount of firepower or escorts can stop a snub from getting a CD in, so it becomes the situation where there isn't a counter to your jump trading counter, and you naturally have the upper hand and jump traders will only avoid you by logging during off hours or not at all, and Disco loses even more activity which you say is fine since they're lolwuts anyway but really all Disco players who you disapprove of are lolwuts in your eyes so why don't you start your own server and see how your suggestion works out eh?

The reason JDs aren't CD'able is because its not as simple as you present it.

It's quite simple. A minor change just needs to be added to the plugin and it's good to go.

1. Your OP: a minor change to murder faction activity and give you and your pirate buddies easy blues
2. A CDable JD is worthless and you essentially turned a awesome piece of tactical equipment into a overpriced machine just because you want JD owners to not be able to reap the fruits of their efforts in acquiring a JD.

You look at the convoluted modern life - asinine engineers fussing to squeeze that extra 1% of performance out of that machine, and ask "why can't we go back to a simpler time". Then you inspect our history, the strife of our ancestors more carefully and realize that for all its complications, modern technology is ultimately for the better. The improvements which although entailed vast amounts of work, ultimately turned out to yield mostly desired results, and slowly but surely technology is still improving to phase out the problems.

Whatever. We're playing a space videogame. We need to balance it's faults.

What I was trying to explain is that complicated solutions are mostly better than the simple solutions.

[Lonely_Ghost]

Hell yes! I'm even for permadeath. One will think twice before logging his precious battleship/barge/etc, knowing it can easily become staflier.

Well, if it wouldn't make game into EVE-like environemnt (means, hunt down large and expensive targets and gank them as hard as it's physically possible), I'd be all up for it!
just make it so that a 1 billion worth battleship is cost-efficient enough against 1 billion worth of bombers/fighters. So you have a chance against 20 bombers/fighters, or against several cruisers.

And we have a deal.

As you might noticed, players are afraid to loose 2-3 mills credits here, and you talking about whole char wipe after you are in wrong side of a blue msg?

What I was trying to explain is that complicated solutions are mostly better than the simple solutions.

If all of thouse would be the Right, then NP.

[Knjaz]

As you might noticed, players are afraid to loose 2-3 mills credits here, and you talking about whole char wipe after you are in wrong side of a blue msg?

That was sarcasm on my part.
Never works out well enough on internet.

The real effect of such change would be massive gankfleets composed of cheapest bombers/fighters possible, hunting down everything that's worth more than 100 mils. And a massive decrease in playerbase as a result.
(though, there's not that much more room to fall, in terms of playerbase, already....)

[Remnant]

I can see some flames are beginning to form. Keep it nice, or the thread may need to be locked in the future. Comeon folks, lets keep things constructive.

[lIceColon]

Cant you just stop talking bullcrap all over? You told that it is easy to pirate jump traders, and when we got to know that you have never pirated at all, you are switching to insult him by various other means.

You seriously don't know to accept defeat in a debate, which you have no idea of, and yet, you are complaining. gg.

I never said its easy to pirate JTs, I just said that you could if you tried, like really hard.

I am entitled to my opinion and if you don't like it you can off.

They use it for nothing other than to benefit themselves, to increase the weight of their pockets.

Are you gonna start a peasant uprising now? There are no poor people in disco, so WHAT is so wrong about "benefit themselves", because unless I'm mistaken the changes you propose will benefit you as a pirate and serves the same self-serving purpose which you supposedly despise. You think your piracy RP is benefiting the server? Not every trader agrees with you.

How misinformed you are. Being money hungry promotes bad roleplay on the server.

Then stop trying to make money off piracy.

Or is it you because you simply stand in the way of progress

How ironic given that I have proposed a perfectly valid solution for both problems that not only retains current features but also ADDS a new game mechanic, meanwhile you are proposing the destruction of an existing feature instead of incorporating it into the reform. Seeing as you are not a FL mod programmer, I don't see how your comments on the problems of coding the new feature is any valid.

This is multiplayer RP server. There shouldn't be an end game in such a form.

Yet you are proposing the CD to be the endgame of both cloaks and JDs and cruising? How is that not OP?

Indeed. Hence why you need to stop whining about how Jump traders need some kind of godly shield and should be liable to RP encounters like everyone else who plays on the server.

I'm not the one trying to change things, you are. Jump traders don't bother me, I'm not the one whining about them.

[Sath]

Pirating is not fun, when every newbie and his mom start using Jumpdrives. And pirating is one of the main things that keep majority of the people intact here. Period.

You can argue whatever you want lIcolon, but you can't deny that fact stated above. Whatever you say, bring along a solid proof of that and you can speak, until then, you can bugger off, good sir.