Announcement Regarding Rule 1.2

[Mímir]

I think it's a slippery slope, and I am quite surprised.

Hosts, poop on carpet, bla bla bla; you forget that the host has an interest in having guests too, so it's a little bit more complex than that.

It creates a bad vibe, really. Am I in the firing line? I shot some traders, I also log when I see certain things to shoot at and I think I made people mad from time to time. Who is in the firing line?

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[Alley]

I think it's a slippery slope, and I am quite surprised.

Hosts, poop on carpet, bla bla bla; you forget that the host has an interest in having guests too, so it's a little bit more complex than that.

It creates a bad vibe, really. Am I in the firing line? I shot some traders, I also log when I see certain things to shoot at and I think I made people mad from time to time. Who is in the firing line?

I think this more meant for Hone-like cases where you have a blatant disrespect for the well-being of the community as a whole.

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Alley was right.

[Panzer]

Just a narrow point from me about "Ruining countless hours of cooperative RP" that goes into POBs

Firstly, if anything is being ruined, it's a system's geopolitical landscape and given time - also militant interaction anywhere near one. The builders'/suppliers' time isn't much of a concern either, since the most developed bases are essentially unassailable with the means any one, two or dozen server factions have at their disposal.

Secondly, Cooperation: Developed bases are the work of groups that were oganized long beforehand, therefore nothing new or valuable in terms of playerbase has been introduced. If anything, just another thing to do mainly for factions with a high average activity and allowances for trading.

Third: RP. Similar to the point above, the sort of RP typical for POBs is a repetition of things done earlier and by pre-existing groups. The broader repercussion however is jump-trading, which is everything but an incentive to interact.

Fouth: The grind. It may work as a means of adding something new for people to aspire to now, but in time and with high-end bases being as untouchable as they are - the grind will end at some point with detrimental effect to overall server attractiveness.

In other words... POBs SUCK! #REMOVEPOB #BASESLAYER

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[Curios]

This is another final nail into the already well-nailed coffin. That's all I can say. Now anything can be portrayed as a 'harassing' because it's of it's subjective nature. One can stand the heat and won't even call it this way while another would cry because he got pirated more then 1 time per whole day. I don't see this rule change being well-through nor I see how it actually helps the game. People don't leave the game because of trolls - because if you leave it means that the trolls wins.

P.S.: It seems to me that admins don't think that people leave the game because it's boring as fuck, instead admins consider the problem in some mythical 'trolls' that destroy the server. This is not entirely correct from my point of view.

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[Sath]

P.S.: It seems to me that admins don't think that people leave the game because it's boring as *****, instead admins consider the problem in some mythical 'trolls' that destroy the server.

Exactly, the game is getting old and it is natural for the playerbase to fall apart. Though a random 1 or 2 might be tempted to leave because they have been trolled to death, doesn't mean that the whole "server population declining" is because of that. That is called a ragequit, and you can see the said players, within a month or two, returning back.

Instead of using this as a reason for "server population in an all time low" scenario, there are a lot more valid reasons to put the burden unto. Some may call it buffer systems, some may call it cloaks, JDs or PoBs altogether. And when they think that their voices don't matter, since majority of the community likes these changes, they just leave. But blatantly telling that "trolling, metagaming made a guy leave" is just, bleh.

Trolling is indeed offensive, and it makes the gameplay a tad more difficult. And the same old routine of "give evidence, and we will ban" would be the best to approach the situation, instead of making it an anarchy. This, may even be abused to make situations look like trolling, to get the player banned (baiting)

[Papa Oomaumau]

I for one think that the rule hasn't been enforced very well, for at least since...
...well, 2008, really.

Seems to me the only people with a real concern over being caught in the crosshairs on this already kinda know they are.
If this forces the immature and inconsiderate to check their behavior, even a little, I'm all for it.
Much of my own absence from the server is due to unchecked trolling and my desire to avoid it.
Heck, if this actually gets enforced, I might log in more.

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[n00bl3t]

Are we turning into internet version of soviet union? Sanctioning people without any sort of evidence? What is this place devolving into?

It's okay Vred, I just think this will be used for those with some kind of influence to remove their enemies from this server on just slight non-provable propabiltiy that this someone might be "trolling".

This summarises my view on summary execution.

"We know you haven't broken any rules we've spent years fine-tuning, but yoloban because no evidence required just feels."

1.2's original wording was greater than it's current one.

Again....rule clarifications like this will affect no-change in players who already play the game fairly and by the rules. It only effects those who try to skirt them or ignore them outright.

The problem is the definition of fairly is up to interpretation. The problem is also players being banned despite following the rules listed. Skirting the rule is breaking a rule? If that is so, why is it not a specific rule? A broadsword of a blanket rule is ineffective and only allows for abuse. Especially when the evidential standard is "we felt like it" and no actual evidence being presented. Votes mean nothing if they're based on feelings of abuse being perpetuated and not quantitative facts.

No need to get snippy. Think of it this way: we're all essentially invited guests at the host's playground. And if you're gonna start taking poops on the merry-go-round, then the host is within his right to kick you out of the playground. Is that a better metaphor for ya?

Nobody is pooping on the merry-go-round. Pooping on it is against the rules. We don't want you on the merry-go-round because we said so, even though you've followed all the rules for being on the merry-go-round we listed. We think you may poop sometime in the future though, and even though it doesn't concern this merry-go-round, you can't play on it.

Alternatively, if pooping on the merry-go-round is not against the rules, then why not make a rule disallowing pooping on the merry-go-round instead of making it so people can inject bias with blanket "no because we can" rules?

I'd like to hear a response of how this is not the case, whilst keeping with the poop analogy.

I think it's a slippery slope, and I am quite surprised.

Hosts, poop on carpet, bla bla bla; you forget that the host has an interest in having guests too, so it's a little bit more complex than that.

It creates a bad vibe, really. Am I in the firing line? I shot some traders, I also log when I see certain things to shoot at and I think I made people mad from time to time. Who is in the firing line?

The solution is either not to play, or play so you don't really play. Playing defensive sanctionlancer with consistent spamming of the screenshot key/FRAPS running is the only defence.

That and asking players whether they own another character you blew up sometime in the last month, lest that be your final nail.

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[Alley]

@nooblet: If this was to end into a massive wave of abusive bans from the admins, the only thing that would happen is that people would wander off. There is nothing this "announcement" covers that isn't already covered by the infamous 0.0 rule.

This announcement appears to me as nothing else but a warning to some players that they will now be dealt with. Will it change anything for the common user? I sort of doubt that.

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Alley was right.

[Highland Laddie]

I for one think that the rule hasn't been enforced very well, for at least since...
...well, 2008, really.

Seems to me the only people with a real concern over being caught in the crosshairs on this already kinda know they are.
If this forces the immature and inconsiderate to check their behavior, even a little, I'm all for it.
Much of my own absence from the server is due to unchecked trolling and my desire to avoid it.
Heck, if this actually gets enforced, I might log in more.

+1 ^ This. And I'll repeat myself:

Again....rule clarifications like this will affect no-change in players who already play the game fairly and by the rules. It only effects those who try to skirt them or ignore them outright.

[Exploration]

Well I'm certainly all for this change/action on the whole deal. Been around nearly 4 years and in that time I've had two forum accounts, this is the first time I've seen action like this being announced. My only hope is it actually -Does- happen.

I also find, from my own perspective. The only negative comments I'd expect to see here were from those who either knew they were doing something wrong or from the fact it impacted on the gameplay of meta gaming. Basically agreeing with Highland + Papa ^^

I'm all for this. Somebody get Garret and the Admin team a coffee on my tab.