New thread: Nerf missiles (or missile count)

[Lythrilux]

I dunno. We should just look to other games with ship combat and try to steal ideas from there as to how to make disco combat better I guess. Just a thought.

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[Haste]

It's fine that missiles are easier to use than guns. It's fine that this means that players less capable of using guns effectively gain a little combat effectiveness.

What isn't fine is if they're so incredibly, brokenly much better than any gun you could hope to put on a ship, that even the most experienced veteran would gain substantial combat effectiveness from swapping that one gun out for a missile.

That's the problem here. Again, the problem is not that a fairly large group of inexperienced players got a small buff to their ability to win. The problem is that missiles are just straight-up better than any other weapon you can stick on a fighter by a long, long margin.

This is when you call something 'overpowered'. This is when you call for 'balance'. This is when 'nerfs' are required. I'm getting really tired of all the herp derp arguments where people go "wow lets nerf everything lets remove ships while we're at it" who know damn well that "removing ships" is not comparable to "balancing missiles" in any way, shape, or form.

But whatever. This game is dying. Many players I used to fly with, including myself (heh), are far less interested in this game, and an often-cited irritation is the sheer stupidity of missiles. Leave missiles as they are, and watch as that small userbase probably never returns. With the grand total of twenty-eight players currently online, you don't need them anyway, right?

Also, just to avoid confusion: missiles in duels aren't as much of a problem. CDs indeed help a bunch there. I'd still pick a missile over a gun if I were dueling for real-life cash, given the slot is still better used that way, but it's not that much of a no-brainer. Where I find missiles overpowered is in group fights, where suddenly the group with more missiles mounted is dominant by a massive margin, regardless of the ability or tactics employed by their opponent.

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[Mímir]

And FFS, Am I the only one who actually CAN evade missiles easily?

No your not the only one, this is yet another of many threads where someone lost a fight and think so highly of themselves that they should not get defeated in a fight so they get on here and cry NERF NERF NERF!!!!

Do you even read?

You're a scrub that doesn't know about pvp, and that's why you think missiles are fine, just like everyone that argues the same point here.

Quoted for truth.


EDIT EDIT EDIT: Removed a bunch of stuff, maybe it's a bad idea to point out to the general public just how terribly OP missiles really are when used right.

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[SnakThree]

I cannot shoot down any ship with only guns. I just can't. I suck that bad with guns. That's why I use Sidewinder. And I spam Nukes. And then I started winning fights. I enjoy winning them as long as those were close fights.

I do not enjoy being missile spammed by more than 3 ships when I have ZERO chance of fighting back or even escaping.

Being bad with guns, I can still claim that missiles are ruining the fun for more people than they grant fun.

And to those who are defending how missiles are OK, I challenge you to participate in group fight where your foes use missiles and you don't. Only then will you understand the extent of missile damage to interactons.

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[tothebonezone]

WAAAAH

WAAAAH

I GOT MURDERED IN A GROUP FIGHT WHEN 6 FIGHTERS ARE ALL CHASING ME DOWN INSTEAD OF SURVIVING BECAUSE OF HOW HILARIOUSLY EASY IT IS TO AVOID GUNFIRE

MAKE MISSILES FLY IN A STRAIGHT LINE AND NOT TRACK ANYMORE MISSILES ARE FOR NOOBS

WAAAAH

That's what you lot sound like. There's a reason modern jets tote ATA missiles.

I vote we bring back the old missile system, so I can go back to my 6missile1torp sabre.

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User was banned for: https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthrea...tid=202684
Time left: (Permanent)

[Jack_Henderson]

Saronsen, it's not the fact that one dies when focussed in a group fight. That happens also when focussed on by no-missile snubs.

The point that many here make is: you die incredibly fast, without anything you can do to avoid it (missile warnings & CMs do not work any more when masses of missiles are used), without the slightest chance.

And that is no fun.
That is what group fighting people complain about.
And of course good pvpers speak up here because for tactical reasons they get targetted first.

Believe me, if you get targetted a lot for whatever reason... you just learn how broken missiles are and that they need to be fixed.

I used to defend missiles, too, until some larger group fights picked up again. And then it became clear just how broken missiles are.

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[Moberg]

-snip-

+9001

If the spam really is such an incredible issue that players leave, then there's not even much that keeps these players here anyway then the "issue" could perhaps be resolved by making missile use more risky. Half refire rate, half ammo count and in return double damage.

That would reward dodging missiles more (which in itself should not be too difficult against two players with missiles. And to be honest, if you're targeted by 6 players (especially in a teamfight), you should not expect to last for half an hour, as frustrating as that may be to certain players.
And in smaller fights, CMs and sudden movements work really well.

Then there's the lag issue that makes missile tracking just go to hell, another drawback in larger fights when you chose to mount a missile.

The current tradeoff is already quite strong: If your opponent knows what he is doing when you use missiles, you effectively have one gun less. That also happens in longer fights, so choosing between missile and energy gun becomes a choice between burst damage or endurance.

[sindroms]

Coming from personal experience.

Reduce HP pool on missile mounts. Two screwups or a well placed CD and your opponent won't have anything to worry about.

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PSA: If you have been having stutter/FPS lag on Disco where it does not run as smoothly as other games, please look at the fix here: https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthrea...pid2306502
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[larzac]

Yeah!! Nerf everything to kill the game faster please!!!

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[Haste]

If your opponent knows what he is doing when you use missiles, you effectively have one gun less.

The point that many here make is: you die incredibly fast, without anything you can do to avoid it (missile warnings & CMs do not work any more when masses of missiles are used), without the slightest chance.

Quote one: random non-PvPer with rather little experience arguing that missiles are easily avoided.

Quote two: an old player - perhaps not the best PvPer - who's been active in a crapton of snub brawls for years and years, and has been avidly using missiles since their 'rebalance' in .87.

I know who I'd rather put my faith in.

And this pattern just keeps on repeating itself. Random players who put zero minutes of practice into using their guns argue missiles are currently balanced, because without the broken pile of crap that missiles currently are, they were never capable of doing much of anything in a fight. Players who do know what they were doing, and perhaps even enjoyed the old fights where things such as 'pressuring the best-aiming players' were feasible (this is no longer possible because no-one can be pressured out of firing missiles) are arguing missiles are utterly broken to the extent that they're making their experience less fun.

We're looking at players with thousands of hours of PvP experience arguing a piece of kit used in their favourite activity is broken. We're also looking at players with half an hour of experience arguing the opposite.

It really is funny to see what happens when something utterly broken is added that certain players come to rely on for their PvP fix.

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