Rewrite and rebalance the Pirate ID so that it's actually used for piracy

[Deeceem]

The Junker ID doesn't have the same amount of freedom that can be abused. They can only pirate in systems that aren't house space. To be honest I do see the logic in having the line changed to that, however there's a couple of holes with the ID (Junker ID can't shoot Xeno/Hogosha transports without making a demand. It's weird). In comparison the Pirate ID doesn't actually have any enemies described in their ID lines.

Those were just very basic examples, since I didn't want to make it too long of an essay. Point is, there are other piracy lines, which would be in need of a rework as well for similar reasons. The reason why the pirate ID has no enemies listed is answered by yourself later on. It's an ID you are supposed to develop your own relations on. Be it as solo player or as a faction using it. Thus why it's a generic ID. It's also fairly irrelevant to the topic.

As part of the perk of being a faction-ID they should be allowed to shoot up lawfuls. Generally they're more organized and have better access to equipment as compared to independent pirates. I guess if we'd make real life comparisons (although we never really should since disco is sci-fi...) you get Bloods/Crips killing police officers.

I didn't see it that way, you are right. But again, just an example. Pretty sure we can find other IDs, which are more appropiate to compare here and I'm sure you are aware of that.

The Pirate ID is meant to be a gateway into faction IDs, however it's got too much freedom and therefore house-based Pirate ID's are overlooked and are seen as worse.

True, that's why I don't disagree with you. I also dislike seeing the Pirate ID being abused as pew-whore ID in capital systems (or in general), instead of playing the local unlawfuls for locally focused piracy and/or engagements with the lawfuls.

To be fair such an issue if any is for another thread, since at a glance that seems like messy waters considering there's a lot to change.

True as well. I just think if you suggest what you did here, I might as well mention what the follow up should or could be, that's all.

[Tutashkhia]

We all know who are meant in the "massive gankforce of New York, and a specific Corsair Boat". So the metaphorical talking isn't really needed. That so called pilot-with-a-corsair-Gunboat can RP that Gunboat any time, no matter with an official 'sair or anyone else.

I see all of yours point, but I will ask a question:

Imagine you're a Pirate IDed player,who logs in New York, undocks from the base and decides to block the California Gate (So he destroys one lane near it).Some minutes pass and he gets surrounded by all kind of Mercs and Lawfuls. Merc-guy trying his/her best to get some cash for his head, while Lawfuls order him to pay a fine, or leave the System. Here is the question: What would you do, if you were that guy and you were capable of fighting off those lawfuls,especially if you were there with some of your friends?

Now, on the other hand, I don't deny the fact that sometimes Pirate forget their -job- and just walk around the System to encounter lowfools. Yes, such things happen too, and wanna know when? I'll answer: When you see only 50 players online, from whom 8-9 are in New York,and fromthose 9 players 50-60% are LPI,5th,LNS or any other known lawful and the rest are 27,14 or 35 ranked players (mostly newbies). You start feeling bored, cuz not many trades to stop and pirate. Simply you start looking for those lawfuls, spend time chatting with them,which ends with fighting in 99.99%.

When pirates stick by the lane, none of them invite lawfuls to the party. But they all come and start the -leave the area- RP, which causes Pirates' or Lawfuls' death. That's the reality.

P.S This is the reality! :

[Fluffyball]

Wait wait wait, since when Pirate ID can make you attack with no demand? Even Xenos can't do that.

I don't know, but current Pirate ID ruleset is OK with me - because entire lawful society and even some pirate society hate me (this is the most rephacked ID ever)... What's wrong with that ID after all?

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[Haste]

Another option is to remove gunboats from the ID. That'd make house-specific pirate groups (Liberty Rogues, Mollys, Red Hessians, Blood Dragons) significantly more appealing.

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[Fluffyball]

Another option is to remove gunboats from the ID. That'd make house-specific pirate groups (Liberty Rogues, Mollys, Red Hessians, Blood Dragons) significantly more appealing.

That would be kind of unfair, because you should count that Pirate ID is also nerfed and rephacked so hard it don't use much stuff AND can't land anywhere (mind you, most of official pirate factions stuff is nerfed to 75%, I even came across to the Pirate ID being nerfed to... 10% at some cases.)

If you are going to remove it from Pirate ID, remove it from Freelancer ID as well for more balance. Also, you seem to forget there can be independent pirate groups, if players want to run one.

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[SMI-Great.Fox]

Furthermore I'd also suggest remove all faction cells from the Pirate ID and that it should be left with only generic and civilian cells. It's a generic ID - why does it have access to so much faction-based technology? If I'm a pirate (Pirate ID) and I want to fly a Rogue GB, I should damn well get a Liberty Rogue ID if I want access to nice toys. 75% isn't really that punishing for gunboats.

This. Fully and truly. I personally am sick and tired of the aspect in which Pirate ID's give to allow them usage of craft that under normal circumstances shouldn't have. Pirate ID'd Asco's outnumber Brigand ID'd Asco's by what.. 50 to 1? Kinda sad.

[Hidamari]

why not just trial some of the suggestions. or just remove the pirate ID for a month or two and see what happens.

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[Fluffyball]

Furthermore I'd also suggest remove all faction cells from the Pirate ID and that it should be left with only generic and civilian cells. It's a generic ID - why does it have access to so much faction-based technology? If I'm a pirate (Pirate ID) and I want to fly a Rogue GB, I should damn well get a Liberty Rogue ID if I want access to nice toys. 75% isn't really that punishing for gunboats.

This. Fully and truly. I personally am sick and tired of the aspect in which Pirate ID's give to allow them usage of craft that under normal circumstances shouldn't have. Pirate ID'd Asco's outnumber Brigand ID'd Asco's by what.. 50 to 1? Kinda sad.

Oh of course they could! You are forgetting about something that is called "blackmarket". And during combat, 75% can be a lot, if you are using certain types of weaponry (like Cerberuses), you need 25% more time than your possible opponent to recharge it. If you don't want to wait, you need to get more generic and rather weaker weaponry.

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[Haste]

You're also forgetting that this 'black market' of yours could be used to explain any combination of Sirian tech, and we'd essentially go back to vanilla's system of Nomad gun Eagles.

The pirate ID as well as the FL ID have access to a somewhat silly variety of ships, although that variety is generally only available at 75%.

At least it'd make a wee bit more sense to be shot at by civilian and/or borderworlds tech than to see the strangest combinations of tech (Ascos are but one example) - with zero inRP explanation as to how they were acquired - flying around.

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[Lythrilux]

We all know who are meant in the "massive gankforce of New York, and a specific Corsair Boat". So the metaphorical talking isn't really needed. That so called pilot-with-a-corsair-Gunboatcan RP that Gunboat any time, no matter with an official 'sair or anyone else.

I tried not specify, you guys aren't the only case to go around do this after all.

Imagine you're a Pirate IDed player,who logs in New York, undocks from the base and decides to block the California Gate (So he destroys one lane near it).Some minutes pass and he gets surrounded by all kind of Mercs and Lawfuls. Merc-guy trying his/her best to get some cash for his head, while Lawfuls order him to pay a fine, or leave the System. Here is the question: What would you do, if you were that guy and you were capable of fighting off those lawfuls,especially if you were there with some of your friends?

You attack in self defense? You friends assist you because you're of the same affiliation?
Re-read the OP. I'm not saying the Pirate ID shouldn't be allowed to defend itself, I'm saying that it shouldn't go around looking to pick fights as an open terrorist ID.

Now, on the other hand, I don't deny the fact that sometimes Pirate forget their -job- and just walk around the System to encounter lowfools. Yes, such things happen too, and wanna know when? I'll answer: When you see only 50 players online, from whom 8-9 are in New York,and fromthose 9 players 50-60% are LPI,5th,LNS or any other known lawful and the rest are 27,14 or 35 ranked players (mostly newbies). You start feeling bored, cuz not many trades to stop and pirate. Simply you start looking for those lawfuls, spend time chatting with them,which ends with fighting in 99.99%.

You could always do that with a non-generic ID. From what I'm seeing though, this is hardly happening when there's only 50 players on and is occurring when there actually are traders on the lanes - the Pirate ID'd ships would just much rather abuse the ID rather than do actual piracy.

When pirates stick by the lane, none of them invite lawfuls to the party. But they all come and start the -leave the area- RP, which causes Pirates' or Lawfuls' death. That's the reality.

Yep. Not sure what your point is here so you'll need to expand upon it here. It might have come from your earlier statement about when you get cornered by lawfuls?

Wait wait wait, since when Pirate ID can make you attack with no demand? Even Xenos can't do that.

I was stating that there are cases where people have gone around with the Pirate ID thinking that they're free to shoot people up without a demand on the Pirate ID due to influence of people abusing the ID like it's an open terrorist ID. Please read the OP properly.

I don't know, but current Pirate ID ruleset is OK with me - because entire lawful society and even some pirate society hate me (this is the most rephacked ID ever)... What's wrong with that ID after all?

So you can just attack in self-defense. You don't need to go hunt them down yourselves, you can focus on piracy instead.

Another option is to remove gunboats from the ID. That'd make house-specific pirate groups (Liberty Rogues, Mollys, Red Hessians, Blood Dragons) significantly more appealing.

That would be kind of unfair, because you should count that Pirate ID is also nerfed and rephacked so hard it don't use much stuff AND can't land anywhere (mind you, most of official pirate factions stuff is nerfed to 75%, I even came across to the Pirate ID being nerfed to... 10% at some cases.)

And? What's the problem? Generic IDs have way too much freedom which causes them to eclipse faction IDs and these IDs really need to shakeup to make them playable but not with too much freedom and abuseable.

If you are going to remove it from Pirate ID, remove it from Freelancer ID as well for more balance.

Yeah, someone asked me this. I said it's a matter for another thread. I do believe the FL ID needs some nerfs too (you can jump into any brawl and take any side and start shooting lol).

Also, you seem to forget there can be independent pirate groups, if players want to run one.

Exactly. I bolded the important part of your statement. These players can be independents and still pirate, they just don't get the chance to abuse the ID and use it like an open terrorist ID. Piracy only really makes sense with transports so that's what's profitable. I fail to see how my suggestion would conflict with independent pirate groups.
If you want to make a group of terrorists who fly everywhere in Sirius using the Pirate ID and whatever ship they like and happily shoot up whoever and whenever, then you're abusing the ID.

Furthermore I'd also suggest remove all faction cells from the Pirate ID and that it should be left with only generic and civilian cells. It's a generic ID - why does it have access to so much faction-based technology? If I'm a pirate (Pirate ID) and I want to fly a Rogue GB, I should damn well get a Liberty Rogue ID if I want access to nice toys. 75% isn't really that punishing for gunboats.

This. Fully and truly. I personally am sick and tired of the aspect in which Pirate ID's give to allow them usage of craft that under normal circumstances shouldn't have. Pirate ID'd Asco's outnumber Brigand ID'd Asco's by what.. 50 to 1? Kinda sad.

Oh of course they could! You are forgetting about something that is called "blackmarket".

That's such shoddy RP as how the tech is acquired. It makes no sense either. Why would the Brigands allow one of their most prized ships easily fall into the black market? Secondly, why would they allow such a ship to keep circulating within that black market? Thirdly, how is the ship repaired and maintained without the Brigands themselves performing maintenance on the ship?
Silly RP like the "blackmarket" could let you justify almost anything. "Yeah, I have the schematics of all the Liberty Navy's bases. I got them from the black market". If you so desperately want some unique tech, do it the right way and SRP it.
Such means of obtaining tech is so crude it'd make even aerelm cry.

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