Quote:And you know how i know this is the damn fact?
the majority doesn't make threads.
the majority doesn't make polls
the majority does not give you notice.
Thank Igiss, that majority has no vote here. Admins are minority, staff are minority, the players, who're actually contributing to server are minority.
In defense of the admins about Nebula Complex ...
Feel free to tear me a new one and tell me of any events I missed. There are good reasons they do what they do.
Edit : see below. I missed that bit. I still feel there's a serious lack of respect towards other players & admins.
(03-01-2015, 07:15 PM)Omicega Wrote: Admins and mods used to be elected by the community, rather than being raised by the existing staff members. In fact, more than a few of the admins around today were voted in in that manner, 'way back then'.
I thank the devs/admins for doing their jobs in their free time, without any payment, they dont have to, without them disco/fl would of died years ago
think about that
whilst some people are whinging why they dont get their pew pew fix, think about the admins/devs for trying their best in a server where the Roleplay is so complex and detailed, they have to sort it out, to keep everyone happy for the server to keep going.
i feel sorry more for people trying disco for the 1st time, trying to find their way, and then they see all this mess, and people wonder why some dont stay?
(03-01-2015, 11:44 PM)Smithy Wrote: In defense of the admins about Nebula Complex ...
Feel free to tear me a new one and tell me of any events I missed. There are good reasons they do what they do.
Edit : see below. I missed that bit. I still feel there's a serious lack of respect towards other players & admins.
I don't really see anything in the defense of it. Only the past destruction of it (twice) by [KNF], whom of which shares only one player with those who sieged the current Nebula Complex - me. And at the time I wasn't even around (had a break from the game), so even that can only be questionably said the same players.
So there is nothing in admin defense here, if anything that the base owner has provoked twice in the past other faction (which I will remind you, is completely unrelated) to the destruction of the base. If anything it only strengthens the attackers.
Regardless of that, the base was destroyed because it's in Kansas, one of the only 2 ways into Vespucci, nor is that base destruction/sanction that came afterwards is the reason as to why this thread was made, or at least not alone.
It's a now on-going bad decision making, and often seemingly poor judgement by a few administrators. This hasn't been a concern to me specifically up until now, for a matter of fact, with that [HF] bastilling. It doesn't mean any less that I didn't notice it and look at it with a frown.
@Most everybody else
I don't think we should vote for admins - no. Otherwise it will just end with a "let the loudest and biggest circlejerk win!", and honestly? We'll end in a worse state than the current. We should, however, be able to vote AGAINST admins, as part of the community. If the community has a consensus on a large scale about a certain individual who shouldn't be an admin, that person should not be an admin.
@Huggie
You make a fine point - we don't own this place and we should just suck it up and do as those who give out of their time for the server says. Alright, that is fair enough, but let me suggest you a certain scenerio - a certain dev decided to go on a personal vendetta after a faction you REALLY love playing, turning all your ships completely useless - because hey, he can, after all HE gives out of his free time to make sure you have a game to play, right?
So, by what you are saying, you aren't to question this dev's decision and more importantly - if he should retain his dev position at all!
Also, about the "who shouts louder", a lot of the sanctions/actions against certain individuals/groups in here are being handled just like that - a group of players spam the admins (and sometimes even the mods) with requests/complains, often unbacked by any evidence and sometimes completely false - and guess what? They even succeed. Why? because they've shouted louder, and loud enough to convince administration team they are right.
@evan
I thank the administration team and the development team all the time, for their work. I tell Alley all the time how amazing the work she does for the server is, and so to the other devs, and I always offer my help when I can to them. Heck, in the past I used to even be Cannon's bugs tester since I was apparently very skillful at finding them.
This doesn't mean I can't or won't criticize things that, in my opinion at least, are being done wrong.
For example - Max (Echo 7-7) presented the new map layout and I complained that Chugoku has turned only further from Honshu in this mod version, which is something I think should be looked upon. Does it mean I don't appreciate all the job he has done for this mod version? No, you damn sure I am. I just raise my concern here as a player to an action he has taken as a developer.
Volunteers are fine and dandy. Efforts are appreciated etc... But I myself am never pigeon holed into the belief that all volunteers are good and praisable. Some volunteers try to get into the system for negative purposes and if we blindly adhere to illogical ideals like auto-honouring volunteeers they will have no trouble using it as a shield for protection. Be just as picky with volunteers as you would be with employees, they are also just as fireable as employees in this regard. Whether they get paid or not doesn't mean squat, it's what they do/don't do that holds meaning.
A lot mentioned in this thread has always been the way it was it's just that there remains a lot less people around who care to fight against it over such an old game. We are seeing the results of a 'win', hollow as it is, on a platform that has been ancient history for years to the real world. If you still like the game stick it out and play while it's around, at least it's free, but otherwise at some point you will need to draw a line in the sand for yourself as to how much of yourself are you willing to put into this game from 2001.
Oh and Loken's Smoke and Mirrors comment is dead on. At best there was a community feedback moments about potential admins but it was not a public vote. Just admins gathering info. The admins vote amongst themselves who is going to join their ranks. If the decision was based on popularity alone then Disco would've turned into a personality cult long ago and would've fallen apart once that personality got bored and moved on with his/her life leaving Disco behind.
How can I have confidence in staff, when I had to go through this ( just or not, is not for me to decide, but that is how I feel ):
Probated for my behavior in 14 posts without staff being able to actually point out anything specific.
Being threatened by moderator that I should not call him biased for thinking only about his beloved faction, due to the fact he has the power to ban me.
Making a joke in flood about racism to same moderator and being probated for 3 months.
Seeing my faction member pirating leader of a faction and being bastilled mid-interaction by admin, who is 2iC of same faction, because admin failed to read ID.
Being informed by same admin that faction no longer can have untagged ships while using Official Faction ID.
Being told that requesting rephack changes now is a faction perk, while this feature was openly available since 20th July, 2009.
Being shown the same attitude for which I was probated due to the wrongly assumed my probation is over. I was one day too early.
I can firmly name two admins that I have full confidence in and who have never shown anything to ruin the trust in them.
I can name few admins that I do have trust, but who have something related to them that raises doubts.
I can also point at few admins who have over and over shown behavior that doesn't fit administrator whatsoever.
I agree the staff could do better. Then again, even at their best in the past, the staff could have always done better. What's different now? Honestly, not much. Trust me. I've seen it from both sides for years, & what I have to say will not make some people happy.
Playing for free still has a price attached to it.
First off, This is only a game. Sure, just about everyone will nod in agreement at the slogan, but the reality is, for some of you, it's not. There will always be discontent with the staff...it's just simply a question of who's discontent at any given moment in time. No matter what the staff does, somebody will always disagree. That's just the nature of reality...personally, I'm all for working towards improvement, but who isn't, really?
That said, let me say an inconvenient truth: Disco is not, nor has it ever been a democracy. Any illusions you may hold that it is, drop that insane notion before you drive yourself crazy.
What we have here is a privately owned server that makes its own rules. If you want rights, go talk to the government reps of the country you live in & potentially enjoy those rights when you walk outside your home.
When we play & communicate here, we have rules instead of rights. If you find yourself in disagreement w/ that statement, then, go find another community more to your liking & don't let the doorknob hit your rump on the way out.
Am I saying it's the staff's way or the highway? No. not at all. What I'm saying is, no matter what the staff does, there's ALWAYS going to be a portion of people that disagree. One week, group A has issues while group B & C are fine, while the next week, something happens that irks the hell out of group C that group A totally agrees with while group B says, "what the hell are you guys on about?"
Disco, like any given family, there are things about it & people in it we can't stand, but we're all still members of the same tribe. In a perfect world, we would all be about warm puppies & fluffy clouds to one another, but this is reality & reality has never worked like that before & it's naive to think that it ever will. but to reiterate, Yes, the staff could always do better no matter who complains, because even at their absolute best, it's literally impossible for the staff to make everyone happy no matter what they do...at the same time, it's literally impossible to simply tell people "It's just a game" to those that habitually take it too seriously & expect them to see anything past that.
But make no mistake: It is nothing & never will be anything more than just a game & every ounce of drama milked out of it from even before my time has never been anything more than 1st world trauma-hounding.