I think the idea of moneysink for POB upkeep could work if there weren't players sitting on literally billions and billions of credits. Not that I think that is unfair, good on them, they must have chalked up a lot of ingame hours for that.
But it would give you the chance to change things up a bit. You would powertrade to cover those creds, which leads to piracy, which leads to interaction. It would allow you to vary your runs instead of being on a predictable base supply route.
Probably needs some idea refinement, but could lead to something good.
(12-02-2015, 12:32 AM)|nfrared Wrote: I think the idea of moneysink for POB upkeep could work if there weren't players sitting on literally billions and billions of credits. Not that I think that is unfair, good on them, they must have chalked up a lot of ingame hours for that.
But it would give you the chance to change things up a bit. You would powertrade to cover those creds, which leads to piracy, which leads to interaction. It would allow you to vary your runs instead of being on a predictable base supply route.
Probably needs some idea refinement, but could lead to something good.
what i meant more is this
1. i want to do something in freelancer but i can't be bothered to trade, cause i already have a lot of monies
2. because i already have a lot of monies, i don't have the motivation to do something as boring as trading
the idea of removing the need of pob supply and instead shifting the attention towards building the base up kind of gives you something to do - a goal for trading that isn't necessarily making money
and if you already have a lot of money then you can hire someone to do it for you, of course if they are interested in that money
also i guess the problem is that having to trade every day just to keep the base afloat is a problem, u can say that oooh pobs are group effort and such, but the problem is exactly the same - the group wouldn't want to supply the base exactly for the same reasons
of course abandoning the need for base supply would require the addition of more lategame for those bases most likely
I'm just sayin this to say it, but if you turn POB's into the go to source for big income through the process of basic material gathering, transportation, production, transportation, more production and so on, then big sale points on planets and NPC stations, it could possibly change the entire Disco Economy Dynamic. Not trying to strike a bad cord with this reference, but if Disco were i some ways, starting with POB's made more in the light of EVE, the I think the possibilities would be endless as long as the game code allows.
I know a LOT of people over the past few years have argued that the Disco economy needs to be smacked hard with the de-nerf hammer, and it would clear up a lot of issues with big ingame purchases that just aren't needed or wanted, such as noobs playing for 5 hours, then owning a libby dread.
Another thing that would be cool would be the production of ships at POB's, most ships you could buy at NPC stations or planets, but big cap vessels would be at their respective Faction bases, and if there is no player faction for the base, then admins could simply set up a POB for the other factions that are there.
There could be a LOT of interesting things to come out of something like this I would think and along with many others here I agree with Protégé.
(12-01-2015, 10:50 PM)Alley Wrote: not really news, POBs have been neglected for a long time.
The thing is, when the plugin was written it only was meant to work in a specific way. I'm sure Cannon had ideas for expansions down the road and a fair bit of the things he did look like temporary solutions to me. A rework of some major parts of the plugin was started by myself, hence how you got dynamic jump hole/gates, multi arches, invincibility, core restrictions and others.
There's still a long way to go and the major milestone to achieve is to make module and item positions loaded from the files instead of relying on a hardcoded array, which makes any addition very painful and unpractical for mass addition. When that part is completed everything becomes just a matter of time, and even the time required to put something in place is seriously reduced.
Speaking of refineries, that's something I already had working in Neo Terra.
Now , you see Alley, this is deffinately a source of whining any crying yiou hate so much ... I usually kept track of this you or other devs posted, but as far as I remember, noone ever said anything like what you did now. That you guys are actually working on the solution, although it'll take time.
Naturally, everything takes time. But if we are not told at least in 2 lines something like: "Yes, we know PoBs became a pain in the ars for some, we are looking for solutions in point A and point B . " or sopmething like that, and people would know what to expect.
I really hope you can find a way to make working and fixing PoBs easier, and can make the making and upkeeping of PoBs more simple.
(12-01-2015, 10:50 PM)Protégé Wrote: Its that kind of flawed mentality of "log or you'll lose something" instead of "log and you'll get smth nice"
Consider the current system as "log and you'll keep smth nice".
(12-02-2015, 05:54 AM)Protégé Wrote: 1. i want to do something in freelancer but i can't be bothered to trade, cause i already have a lot of monies
2. because i already have a lot of monies, i don't have the motivation to do something as boring as trading
I can't really see the relevance of having a lot of monies when it comes to PoBs, you need to supply the base no matter how much cash you have, motivation here is not getting more monies but keeping your base alive.
Alternatively if you hire others to do it for you, that's already a money sink for you and then you have your time to spend on other things instead of wasting it on supplies.
Now tell me where this motivation, or money sink goes if PoB supply requirements are removed.
(12-01-2015, 10:50 PM)Protégé Wrote: also i guess the problem is that having to trade every day just to keep the base afloat is a problem, u can say that oooh pobs are group effort and such, but the problem is exactly the same - the group wouldn't want to supply the base exactly for the same reasons
Guess what, PoB maintenance costs don't increase with number of suppliers. Do your math and you'll find out the more people you have the less each of them has to do to achieve the same results, and swe suddenly cease talking about "having to trade every day just to keep the base afloat".
Right now I feed a PoB I have to spend like 1 hour per week to do so because of it's nice location. Imagine I'd have three more people for it, 1 hour per month. My dear god, what a chore...
(12-01-2015, 10:34 PM)Freedom Phantom Wrote: how about removing every pob first
then moving on from there
ffs just look at gamma or new york
+1
PoBs generate so much drama, and that same drama lowers the player count. Core and the corsairs used to have huge awesome pews in gamma over the summer. But then core decided to build the pob my first reaction was that it would generate drama because of cores false reputation. When the corsairs brought loads of players to seige it and ofc, Core defended by piling loads on the corsairs and drama spurred up so much and now look were the corsair playerbase is: gone. As is the core playerbase, it's just a few of us now it hurts both sides and isn't healthy for the server in my opinion. There are further examples of this but those examples involve sanctions/bans which I'm not allowed to discuss but yea just my input.
(12-02-2015, 12:51 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: Right now I feed a PoB I have to spend like 1 hour per week to do so because of it's nice location. Imagine I'd have three more people for it, 1 hour per month. My dear god, what a chore...
You just said the magic word ... cause of it's nice location. Now, let's imagine, someone wants to use a PoB to actual RP reasons, not just an ore warehouse, and most probably won't put it next to planets and other stations. Then the time you need to spend on upkeeping and not to mention upgrading raises exponencially. See my point ? ( That's a reason why fe. I gave up on an idea I had, cause I wanted to have a PoB as HQ, but it is way too much of a drag even to keep a Core 2 PoB upp and running.
(12-02-2015, 12:51 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: Right now I feed a PoB I have to spend like 1 hour per week to do so because of it's nice location. Imagine I'd have three more people for it, 1 hour per month. My dear god, what a chore...
You just said the magic word ... cause of it's nice location. Now, let's imagine, someone wants to use a PoB to actual RP reasons, not just an ore warehouse, and most probably won't put it next to planets and other stations. Then the time you need to spend on upkeeping and not to mention upgrading raises exponencially. See my point ? ( That's a reason why fe. I gave up on an idea I had, cause I wanted to have a PoB as HQ, but it is way too much of a drag even to keep a Core 2 PoB upp and running.
And who's responsibility that the PoB is this or that far from supply sell points? Is the system bad because certain players decided against using the opportunity of closer supplies? Who says you can't have a PoB for actual RP resons but also close to supply sell points? it is entirely up to you.
Mind, the base I'm talking about isn't an ore warehouse either, by its setup it's more of a production facility, and I don't expect to be this lucky with materials needed for module construction. But at least the good choice of location cut basic supply times a lot, which is nice.
And who's responsibility that the PoB is this or that far from supply sell points? Is the system bad because certain players decided against using the opportunity of closer supplies? Who says you can't have a PoB for actual RP resons but also close to supply sell points? it is entirely up to you.
Mind, the base I'm talking about isn't an ore warehouse either, by its setup it's more of a production facility, and I don't expect to be this lucky with materials needed for module construction. But at least the good choice of location cut basic supply times a lot, which is nice.
So following your idea, doesn't matter if I wanna do a lawful or unlawful RP, I should stick my base next to the NPC station ? Wow, man, that is one hideout noone is ever going to find. . . much creativity ...
PoBs are , atm not good for anything else but put them to a place where it's easy to supply, pay all the fees everyone decided you have to pay and use it for building stuff or an ore warehouse. But if I'd want to use it for anything else, unless I stockpile a few 5k transports nearby in case I can't play for a day or two if I don't want to lose what I made.
Also, a reason why I decided it's not managable to do what I wanted is partially what Protégé said ... I want to do something else then running around in a transport, gathering all the stuff for the base, then log off, cause I have time for nothing else.
(12-02-2015, 01:42 PM)Oldum Wrote: So following your idea, doesn't matter if I wanna do a lawful or unlawful RP, I should stick my base next to the NPC station ? Wow, man, that is one hideout noone is ever going to find. . . much creativity ...
[align=justif>]Perhaps you indeed should, if you prefer spending less time with supplying. Or you could spend extra time with that and locate your base away from all of those you don't want to get close, the choice is yours. But right now it looks like you want them both, like a hungry man with a hamburger, wanting to eat it and keep it for later at the same time, but you can't do both.[/align]
(12-02-2015, 01:42 PM)Oldum Wrote: Also, a reason why I decided it's not managable to do what I wanted is partially what Protégé said ... I want to do something else then running around in a transport, gathering all the stuff for the base, then log off, cause I have time for nothing else.
Again, what I told to Protege too, if you got more folks to do the same amount of job, you'll have time for other things too.