(07-14-2016, 06:11 PM)St.Denis Wrote: Seeing as this has dragged on for quite a while, I thought that I would say something about your Post and your Demands. Please note that this is not in Admin Green as this is being Posted by me and does not, in anyway, reflect the stance of the WHOLE Admin Team or, indeed, any other Admin.
The Discovery Development Team Wrote:The men and women of the Discovery Freelancer development team have observed the recent actions of the server’s administration and cannot in good conscience continue work on the mod at this time. We find the recent matters regarding both the bans of Impy, Karst, Lythrilux, Mephistoles, Snoopy, and Swifty as well as the administration’s attitude towards any dissent on the subject deeply concerning. In addition, we find transparency and justification for the bans to be lacking. We do not find the canned and pre-prepared statements given by the administration to be sufficient in justifying their decision. Finally, we find the administration’s response of “If you don’t like us, leave” to be damaging to the game environment that we in the development team attempt to cultivate.
It is your right to decide not to work on the Development of the Mod. In my opinion, none of us, regardless of ones EGO or feelings of self-importance, is irreplaceable. This includes Admins, Mods, Devs and Faction Leaders. All of the fore-mentioned people have been changed many times, over the years. The Game was here before most, if not all, of us were in these positions and the Game will more than likely still be going, in one form or another, after most of us have moved on. The people that are important, to this Game, are the silent majority. These are the ones that come here to play, have fun and generally are no trouble, at all.
The Discovery Development Team Wrote:Before we can resume work on the mod we demand that the following terms be met.
Demands, out of the blue, are generally never well received and, as you and I can probably guess, these are not going to be met. It would have more likely been better received if you had approached the Admin Team and tried to discuss your concerns without having to resort to this. If this had happened and you still were not satisfied, then you could have gone down this road (the diplomatic approach first and then the iron fist, later).
The Discovery Development Team Wrote:The Administration shall make available in full all forum and skype discussion which led to the decision to ban the aforementioned individuals.
This is never going to happen. You are not entitled to see any ‘evidence’, unless you are the person involved or in some cases the Faction Leader of the person involved. The Faction Leaders, in this case, are also not entitled to see any ‘evidence’ due to this not involving any Faction Tagged Ships (with some, if not all, of these being in multiple Factions, who would we give the evidence to?) Just to put the record straight, not one of those involved has approached me for any evidence (possibly because I don’t have some of these on Skype). I was approached by one Faction Leader and I told him what I have written above.
The Discovery Development Team Wrote:2.) The Administration shall concede to any further terms laid out after the discourse and evidence requested above is reviewed by the development team, should we deem more terms necessary to continue work on the mod.
Just to repeat myself, this is also never going to happen. Your Demand is basically like asking for a signed blank cheque. I do wonder if these demands were written, whilst angry and all pumped with one’s self-importance, because in reality no-one would ever agree to this. I have taken time to think about this and not written it with any feelings of outrage etc. which I cannot say was done here.
The Discovery Development Team Wrote:3.) This thread will not be moderated to an unreasonable extent, locked, removed, or made invisible.
The Admins/Mods decide what shall and shall not be moderated on the Forums and unless the Threads, or Posts within it, breaks any Rules then it should remain. I will defend that right for any and all Threads/Posts.
The Discovery Development Team Wrote:Until the Administration meets our terms in full, the Discovery Freelancer development team shall officially remain on strike and no work shall be conducted. These terms are non-negotiable. Should Discovery’s administration choose not to acknowledge the above terms, you can consider our positions as developers to be null and void.
Once again, this is never going to happen. It is, also in my opinion, better to allow things to be negotiable, as this allows leeway and makes people feel that they are not cornered. When discussions happen, people feel a lot more relaxed if they feel they have some say in moving things forward. This demand, along with the ones above, allowed for no compromise and if you look close enough, you can see that it is the same as what you were decrying above.
Quote:Finally, we find the administration’s response of “If you don’t like us, leave”
I just want to put in to perspective of what you have done here.
You Develop the Game, you make decisions, some times without transparency and the Community have to live with it. I have even heard cries of ‘Bias’ when a certain Faction suddenly gets ‘new toys’ or a conveniently placed Base. I don’t think I have ever heard the Admins shout ‘Lets Strike unless the Devs do what we want’. It is not our place to second guess what you are doing. You are the guys that make these decisions, whether I or anyone else believes they are the right or wrong ones and whether they are done for the right or wrong reasons. As Admins, we have to make certain decisions, some of them are not easy, but we, as far as I am aware, make them for the right reasons.
These are the 12 people that were voted on. The names were suggested by different Admins, some of the names were suggested by only one Admin others by more than 1 Admin. Some people will feel, that some of the names are justified and some not, but these are what were brought forward.
Now, when I voted on these people, I used my judgement. I also used these two:
Quote:To develop and safeguard the health of the Discovery Freelancer community, official server, and forums.
To be fair and treat all players equally, independent of their level and faction alignment.
The last one is important as some of these are Faction Leaders and they, regardless of their beliefs, are just equal as the rest of the Players.
I based it on what I had witnessed in Game, on the Forums, what I had seen whilst sat on the Desk and what I have personally witnessed on Skype (I do not frequent TS). Some of these I have no contact with, on Skype, as I don’t happen to be in the same Factions as them. I have little or no contact with most, except with those in the OFL Chat (I don’t generally involve myself in that either).
Here are some scenarios I have seen.
Quote:People who like to walk the grey area of the Rules and when called out about it, state ‘It doesn’t say I can’t’. Yet when someone pulls a like stunt against them, they are the first to put in a Violation Report.
A handful of PvP Aces log in to the Game, find a small Group who are having fun and then decimate then in about 30 seconds, shout some nonsense lines in System Chat, Planet dive and log off. They have had their 30 seconds of fun, ruined the fun of the others. I have no problem with people having fun but not solely at the detriment of everyone else.
‘Hey, it is Fred Blogs, log your <insert Ship type> lets gank him.
Hey, Fred has logged with some of his mates, nobody likes him lets gank him. (this is, in its simplest form, bullying).
See a Fred Post on the Forums, Post a flame Post just to wind him up(nobody cares because it is Fred, others do it so why can’t I?) (Yet again this is just bullying)
‘Your spelling is atrocious and your Grammar leaves a lot to be desired’. I find this laughable that people feel they can be vulgar enough, to others, to point this out, especially when their Posts are far from perfect. I do, in Game, correct someone’s spelling, as he has asked me to help him improve his English skills. I have also told him that if, at any time, he asks me to stop, I will.
‘You are a newb, your opinion is worthless’. We are all equal here and are all entitled to our opinions. It doesn’t hurt to be polite and respectful, to each other.
There are many other instances of things I have seen and I am sure other people have got many other stories. The question I asked myself is, ‘Is this acceptable’?
I also used what I have seen on the positive side of things to counter balance against the negatives. Just because some people are Faction Leaders doesn’t necessarily mean that they are a productive Member of the Community. I also don’t believe that because you do good things that it allows you to get away with the opposite.
So I used all these sort of things to make my decision on these people when I voted for each. Now, some of those I vote Yes, for, didn’t get banned and some of those I voted No, for, were banned. The Admin Team is a democracy and that is the way of a Voting System. As I have already told some people:
I may not agree with the outcome, of a vote, but I agree to abide by that outcome.
People may agree or disagree with my way of making that decision, but, at the time, it was my decision to make. The ones I voted Yes, for, were ones that I thought did things purely and utterly for their own pleasure and with a total disregard for other people’s feelings.
Good on the admins for remaining strong in the face of usurpers trying to undermine your authority. If the admins are compromised we truly are finished. All those usurpers should be put on probation for trying to destabilise the community.
(07-16-2016, 04:07 AM)Captain_Nemo Wrote: The admins are claiming that while no rule was violated per-say, in order to maintain the health of the server, the admins voted to ban them.
until the administration can realize what a boneheaded move that was, they will continue to be a laughing stock
i honestly do not see how anybody could possibly defend this, or even be okay with it. it is an explicit acknowledgement that the rules do not matter, at all, and if the majority of admins feel like removing you (and all your hard work), they will. and nobody can stop them.
Howard Williams - CEO, Williams-Mordhauser Distributing - "Just try and stop us"
Caroline Convair - General Secretary, Williams-Mordhauser Distributing - "Please excuse the CEO"
(07-16-2016, 04:07 AM)Widow Black Wrote: Good on the admins for remaining strong in the face of usurpers trying to undermine your authority. If the admins are compromised we truly are finished. All those usurpers should be put on probation for trying to destabilise the community.
As usual your entitled to your opinion but like always your opinion is WRONG.
No one is trying to seize control here.
The Admins overstepped their authority and banned people in a manner which is invalid according to their own rules, So the Dev team has done this in an attempt to simple get ALL parties here to play by the rules. There is no malice intended here and no where does it state that the Dev team wants to replace the Admins.
Try to read more and think before you make ridiculous comments just for the sake of brown nosing.
Just that the terms the striking dev-members laid out violate the rules laid out by the Admins the now striking dev-members claim they want to hold high, if the Admins would comply with those. So requesting the Admins to break what is supposed to be the same for all to bend to the will of a few that think previous actions been not according to the rules that were put in place to treat everyone the same is something that's just because it's justified by the reason of the cause, which still is a subjective matter because the members on strike don't have the full insight on the reasons that led to those actions?
If you truly believe this, then there's more broken with this community than with the administrative team.
This is a discussion thread. Do not use this thread to be hostile towards other members otherwise you could face consequences yourself. If you happen to have something to say to another member that is not appropriate for this forum then please take it to a PM.
(07-16-2016, 11:40 AM)Cashew Wrote: TIf you happen to have something to say to another member that is not appropriate for this forum then please take it to a PM.
Seems to me that if the Devs are serious about this strike, they ought to re-write their terms to something less catch-all and more suitable. Especially now that we actually know what happened and why.
I say ban them, ban them all, we don't need a dev. strike. Ban all the devs who are on strike until they decide to work for this mod again. We need loyal devs. Devs who put their time and life into this mod to make it greater , fun and keep it running at a decent pace.
(07-16-2016, 11:48 PM)Internity Wrote: I say ban them, ban them all, we don't need a dev. strike. Ban all the devs who are on strike until they decide to work for this mod again.[...]
*slow clapping* You should become an Admin with this attitude.
Or, even better: become a developer and do more than just hard talk.
Now, without sarcasm:
What Disco needs is some sort of sanity in this mess.
De-escalation starts with obvious mistakes being rectified.
Not with protesters being shut up/ignored/banned/...
Consciously escalating the situation by lashing out at the protesters is the worst possible approach.
The Dev strike was necessary to make the staff take the protest seriously enough to even bother to rethink questionable action. Sad thing that it became necessary, regrettable that it slows down the mod, but that cannot have come as a surprise.
@Staff: Just present an acceptable solution. By now, I bet a lot of people are willing to compromise and accept a reasonable solution. Most just want to go back to normality, I think. And that is what would be best for Disco.
Jack, the strike wasn't needed, it was a mistake to counter a mistake and has now left us in a worse position than when this mess began. The banning of the six players hasn't harmed the server so far, yet halted progress will do far more harm than any of the previous banned members. Do you really want another two years of stagnation over mishandled bans?