(11-20-2016, 02:54 PM)Arbs Wrote: I'm not exactly sure what you intend to do with this. Will I be seeing anyone that can get their hands on the blackmarket flying guardians and -defiants-? Or happen to see some outcasts flying a bastet and a manta? Just because you could screenshot a few blue messages? Is this something about producing SRPs in series?
You really should take a look at Omicega's last paragraph. Yes. You don't need any oorp permission to tractor bots/bats/ammo, and that's why player ships only drop ammo and regens and NPCs only drop silver niobium or scrap metal - and not ship parts. When you're overstepping into something which belongs to a faction, it does create a problem and as a faction leader, I don't think I'm any inclined to accept that. And that's where the hundreds of questions come about how will you do this/that, which usually end up with some arguing, maybe drama, and with borderline or not powergame-ish responses about things not part of game mechanics like refurbishing ships of different military technologies, in your case.
You didn't read the prior things, didn't you? This is not about SRPs. This is to give people a reasonable, not made-up background for using ships they can use with certain IDs with a certain technerf, for example Junkers with Gaian tech or Freelancers with nearly every tech.
Please stay within a logical state here. When you destroy/shoot a ship, it drops, ingame, based by what is coded, ammunition, commodities and regens, yes, but the ship doesn't get vaporized. InRP, you have debris scattering all around, and some of those debris even got that massive that they made it ingame to become a scrap field. You can look that up in the Nav-Map.
About the technology-adaption thing, I couldn't care less what faction leaders think ooRP about it. Deal with that inRP, like Auxesia did. The entire ooRP-hatred is totally up to the people themselves and I won't give anything about it. It's a roleplay server. Stop acting faction stuff ingame is your outgame toys.
(11-20-2016, 03:30 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: About the technology-adaption thing, I couldn't care less what faction leaders think ooRP about it. Deal with that inRP, like Auxesia did. The entire ooRP-hatred is totally up to the people themselves and I won't give anything about it. It's a roleplay server. Stop acting faction stuff ingame is your outgame toys.
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(11-20-2016, 04:08 PM)Ryummel Wrote:
(11-20-2016, 03:30 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: About the technology-adaption thing, I couldn't care less what faction leaders think ooRP about it. Deal with that inRP, like Auxesia did. The entire ooRP-hatred is totally up to the people themselves and I won't give anything about it. It's a roleplay server. Stop acting faction stuff ingame is your outgame toys.
Awww, still so naive :3
tbh its bitter attitudes like that which destroy the servers nature of RP
i don't see anything wrong with this concept. there's drawbacks to it, and that's all that matters, to make it more realistic. Maybe even throw in a dice roll to chance the "good quality" or usable parts. Not all scrap can be useful.
Or maybe a roll out of 200 for the % quality?
I think it's even sillier that faction leaders are "needed" to consent about lesser tech. I bet Von Claussen had to ask people right???????? They're only needed for 'lore confirmation' if they want to recognise the RP or not. There's always been things of blackmarket knock offs anyway, it really doesn't harm. It's not like it's at 100% or military-grade of maintenance.
These are current day junkers, salvaging ships. The idea that you through the use of junker dark magic can take a scrapped hull and transform it into a working high-tech battleship is beyond absurd. Even in the future, laws of physics apply. Requirements to hull integrity and so on and so forth would make it quite problematic to just duct tape a kilometer-long ship together. It also raises a few questions as to why Junkers haven't used their legions of fixer-uppers to ensure world domination already? If they lose a BS it's no biggie, they'll just "salvage" it and have it ready for another fight tomorrow...
Salvaging wrecks is about recovering precious and rare raw-materials, and that's it. If you're lucky you might find a few high-tech components that are still in working order that are sold off for profit. The idea that - if I am reading this right - you can repair entire ships without blueprints, without a small army of science/technical staff, without the same specialized manufacturing processes, without original replacement parts etc. (I could go on all day, this is really one of the most ill-devised ideas I have seen on Disco which says quite a lot) is just plain silly. It's an extremely complex and challenging endeavor, and if you look at real life for comparison, the massive industrial complex of FUCKING CHINA wasn't able to design and construct a working carrier hull and had to buy Varyag from Ukraine to re-purpose it. In a Disco setting, I find it hard to believe that the most cutting-edge technology in all of Sirius should somehow be mundane because we are in the future; we're talking battleships and military-grade gear afterall...
Why haven't any of the house navies uhh... explored this option? Why do they just let junkers go off and take ships that are perfectly suited for repair or replacement parts apparently?
It makes no sense. None.
On a related note, I think that Disco should allow people to play the game the way they want and do what they want; the issue arises when someone wants something that transgresses the boundaries of what someone else wants or already has. If you want to roleplay a tech-salvaging Junker, I don't understand why you don't just do it with items that hold no gameplay value? You can say you recovered a Gallic transdimensional mafipulator that you are now selling to the highest bidder, supply screenshots of the wrecking and so on and so forth... That way your perception of what salvaging is won't interfere with other players, who arguably have logic and common sense on their side.
(11-20-2016, 04:10 PM)Auzari Wrote: i don't see anything wrong with this concept. there's drawbacks to it, and that's all that matters, to make it more realistic. Maybe even throw in a dice roll to chance the "good quality" or usable parts. Not all scrap can be useful.[/color]
Now that's finally something I can work with. That would also give /coin and /dice a use again. I'll think about how to integrate that. Probably the best thing would be to add that to the screenshot when salvaging.
About the other topic, I don't actually get what the entire problem about it is. If anything, it creates only more RP opportunities, like basically the entire RP between GG and Izay Vyu was about.
Now having that in mind the people interested in this kind of RP should now find out how what to do and how to play with this logic in mind. So now it is a matter of adopting of this kind of logics into the RP.
(11-20-2016, 03:30 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: About the technology-adaption thing, I couldn't care less what faction leaders think ooRP about it. Deal with that inRP, like Auxesia did. The entire ooRP-hatred is totally up to the people themselves and I won't give anything about it. It's a roleplay server. Stop acting faction stuff ingame is your outgame toys.
(11-20-2016, 04:10 PM)Auzari Wrote: I think it's even sillier that faction leaders are "needed" to consent about lesser tech. I bet Von Claussen had to ask people right???????? They're only needed for 'lore confirmation' if they want to recognise the RP or not. There's always been things of blackmarket knock offs anyway, it really doesn't harm. It's not like it's at 100% or military-grade of maintenance. [/color]
(11-20-2016, 04:18 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: About the other topic, I don't actually get what the entire problem about it is. If anything, it creates only more RP opportunities, like basically the entire RP between GG and Izay Vyu was about.
(11-12-2016, 03:33 PM)Omicega Wrote: There are other people playing here than yourself. It should be considered at least a common courtesy to seek permission when you're trying to get your hands on another faction's tech - you've already mentioned how subjective a lot of the details are, which I agree with, but when it comes to any military tech (and in particular Gallia's, considering the centuries Gallia and Sirius have had to diverge in industrial standards) the idea that military-grade ships and weaponry can just be picked up and refurbished by any passing Junker is mind-blowing - assuming you can even consider the wrecks as still being there or being there at all in an iRP sense. You can write your own personal stories however you like - I don't think anyone is contesting that - but when you start incorporating elements of lore, gameplay, or fluff that belong to other factions, it should make at least a little bit of sense to anyone decent to clear the air by asking ooRP first.
Maybe you should take @Arbs' advice and reread my last post. I'm really, really curious to know how you're flat out unable to 'get it', as you say yourself.
It's pretty simple, but let me break it down for you. There is your roleplay and there is other people's roleplay. When the two conflict, people get annoyed. I could have gotten up this morning and written a story about a Kusari BS defecting to Gallia for any number of roleplay reasons - I could throw at least a couple out there off the top of my head. This is all my roleplay - even if it's backed up in-game, it has no actual canon basis (and nor should it), and frankly it shouldn't be worth the paper it's printed on unless at least some effort is put out there to contact [KNF] to greenlight the general idea beforehand. You don't have to anymore (which I think should be changed ), but IMHO it definitely makes you look like an asshole to plow ahead with personal RP that might run in direct contravention to a faction's (official or unofficial) stance on the same thing.
I have literally no idea how you can find the idea of harmonising your RP with the RP of others to be a bad thing, much less something beyond your understanding. It's a simple courtesy, and to be frank people in your position have no idea just how many "I stole this/defected with this/etc etc" bullshit excuses for plots faction leaders get hammered with on a daily basis. There were at least three or four 'stolen Valor' RP attempts floating around concurrently at one point a year or so back. These are the largest warships in the known galaxy, the only battleship/carrier multirole ship in both sectors with a gun that (iRP) is capable of disabling opposing dreadnoughts in one single shot, and these people were expecting me to believe that Valors go missing as if the Grande Maréchale were misplacing her keys. Their RP might have been fine with it, but they sure as hell didn't give a damn if it affected the RP of me or my faction.
Everyone else playing here is not a side character for your personal story. They have their own roleplay to uphold and keep within the boundaries of common sense, and you're doing them a disservice by sidelining it in favour of what you personally think is cool and right.
These are current day junkers, salvaging ships. The idea that you through the use of junker dark magic can take a scrapped hull and transform it into a working high-tech battleship is beyond absurd. Even in the future, laws of physics apply. Requirements to hull integrity and so on and so forth would make it quite problematic to just duct tape a kilometer-long ship together. It also raises a few questions as to why Junkers haven't used their legions of fixer-uppers to ensure world domination already? If they lose a BS it's no biggie, they'll just "salvage" it and have it ready for another fight tomorrow...
Salvaging, yes. And this is how restoration looks like. I don't even need pictures of third world countries that show poor people salvaging metal to get their daily ration of food. No, current day junkers are a bit more technological equipped. Here are a few other examples of people who are able to restore cars without dark magic. Yes, here I'm talking about cars. Now, Freelancer plays more than 1000 years in the future, where you have nano-technology that you use on a daily basis to repair ships both in space and instantly when you dock on stations or land on ports. There are even repair ships out there, magically repairing battleships within seconds with green goo. And here I get told I'm dumb for actually daring to give it a shot to RP exactly that what people take on an RP server as an advantage while being offended once people pop up and want to use it as well.
Aside from that, Junkers are exactly doing that kind of thing. Look at their ships and the ID-cards relating to them, as well as Jinx' Ship Lore thread.
Also, could we finally stop talking about battleships? I get the feeling the people do exactly as I have foreseen in the first post and CBA to read what I actually wrote there. No battleships, no SRPs.
Quote:Salvaging wrecks is about recovering precious and rare raw-materials, and that's it. If you're lucky you might find a few high-tech components that are still in working order that are sold off for profit. The idea that - if I am reading this right - you can repair entire ships without blueprints, without a small army of science/technical staff, without the same specialized manufacturing processes, without original replacement parts etc. (I could go on all day, this is really one of the most ill-devised ideas I have seen on Disco which says quite a lot) is just plain silly. It's an extremely complex and challenging endeavor, and if you look at real life for comparison, the massive industrial complex of ***** CHINA wasn't able to design and construct a working carrier hull and had to buy Varyag from Ukraine to re-purpose it. In a Disco setting, I find it hard to believe that the most cutting-edge technology in all of Sirius should somehow be mundane because we are in the future; we're talking battleships and military-grade gear afterall...
Why haven't any of the house navies uhh... explored this option? Why do they just let junkers go off and take ships that are perfectly suited for repair or replacement parts apparently?
It makes no sense. None.
See, and here is the CBA to read thing again. I extra added a reverse-engineering process and am asking about the balancing of it. Remember it is more than 1000 years in the future. And this is not Star Wars, where planets and giant space stations don't leave debris when they pop up. You see ingame, already in the intro, how ships fall into pieces. Yes, one can be happy if there is valuable stuff left. That's why I decided to gather multiple debris instead of just saying "Boom, that ship exploded, I can put it together totally easy and all that". To be realistic, it would need 40! gunboats of one class to both having it reverse-engineered as well as restored. Of course it won't have the same efficiency as it would have had if it was a faction-built product. But no faction is going to buy stuff they can create themselves, peeps, so there is most probably atech-nerf in place LITERALLY simulating exactly that (and that would finally give a logical explanation on the technerfs).
About all that, since you're still talking about battleships, I think I don't need to continue here, as snubcraft surely isn't a miracle work anymore in a future where you can equipment for ships literally everywhere. (You can buy weapons, engines, shields, etc on any station and you have stations like Barrier Gate selling all that to anyone.)
Now why have house navies and all that not explored this? Because obviously they have not the numbers or the interest to fly around with non-pew ships to simulate something like that. NPCs at least use freighters every now and then, however, there is nothing that simulates faction-owned salvagers. And that's why you have Junkers that do exactly that, both in Sirius as well as in Gallia. Maybe there are contracts in the total-deep lore of Freelancer, maybe there are not. It's up to the factions themself why they are tolerating Junkers in their junk yards. If anything, they would profit from Junkers keeping their systems clean. However, it's all about how people deal with itinRP.
Quote:On a related note, I think that Disco should allow people to play the game the way they want and do what they want; the issue arises when someone wants something that transgresses the boundaries of what someone else wants or already has. If you want to roleplay a tech-salvaging Junker, I don't understand why you don't just do it with items that hold no gameplay value? You can say you recovered a Gallic transdimensional mafipulator that you are now selling to the highest bidder, supply screenshots of the wrecking and so on and so forth... That way your perception of what salvaging is won't interfere with other players, who arguably have logic and common sense on their side.
The only thing about this is that I am actually looking to have a balanced concept here that gives people alternatives from pewpew and being the anti-nomad-RP-hero, to bluntly call it how many peeps see it. That's why I want constructive feedback instead of people that are in factions with battleships respawning after two hours without caring for having lost a battle. Not that I see an issue with that. I however, try to have a bit more 'logic' behind it, as people are desperately looking for logic in a sci-fi-game and tend to compare it with what they have in a time like this. (Where you can already look up selfmade stuff via internet en masse)