Zoner ID line addition

[Backo]

Voted first. I don't see what the Zoners really have to lose, given the already cry oppression and we see people from all over Sirius come to their aid after they cry Core will siege the freeport, even though Core made sure to merely seek revenge on the 2 vessels that wronged them and even did it diplomatically. If someone snaps from the Zoner side and pulls a Han Solo then so be it, at least it'll make things more interesting rather than the "CORE IS THE NEXT HITLER" mk II that we seem to have as a trope.

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[Petitioner]

This change is present only for the duration of this 'event', really. Once this is over, the ID will be reverted to normal. It will, most probably, last less than a week.

That's disappointing, but I can understand why, I guess.

I guess Finn's point is that even in this short period of time people abusing this opportunity can screw up the work of others and void all effort put into estabilishing the current public image and reputation of Zoners in the past years.

I've been playing Zoners since 2010, and I can say that Zoners do a pretty good job of ruining both our inRP and ooRP reputation all on our own, thank you.

Voted first. I don't see what the Zoners really have to lose, given the already cry oppression and we see people from all over Sirius come to their aid after they cry Core will siege the freeport, even though Core made sure to merely seek revenge on the 2 vessels that wronged them and even did it diplomatically. If someone snaps from the Zoner side and pulls a Han Solo then so be it, at least it'll make things more interesting rather than the "CORE IS THE NEXT HITLER" mk II that we seem to have as a trope.

The Core are supposed to be the bad guys, but, like Jayce said in another thread, it's not fun to play the bad guys when literally everyone in Sirius is up against you at the same time - sometimes it seems like even the Nomads have more friends than does the Core, you know?

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[Sombs]

The Core are supposed to be the bad guys

But is that so? When I joined the Core| back nine months ago, the houses were pretty good with the Core. Rheinland is using the Core as a puffer to all the threats from the Omicrons, as they already have trouble with RHA and Corsairs, and the Core has the Arcani units in house space to gather information and support their allies. If I remember correctly, the Core is also good with the LSF, okay-ish with Kusari and Bretonia, and Core|APM deliveres much into house space, be it Iridium or Battleship remains. Lore-wise, the Core has a certain powerful reputation in the houses, that is spread via Propaganda (Commodity) and thus Core gets pilots from all over Sirius. That makes them, lore-wise, not the bad guys. That started with the Core-Zoner-Conflict, where of course everyone was on the Zoners side, aside from Rheinwehr-Korps and indirectly the LSF as well, iirc. Jayce can correct me here. Back then, they sieged the Freeport multiple times, shred like dozens of ships of the Corsairs, the Order and Zoners.

However, this time, there was no siege, as there was no Erik Nodtviet. They have Jack Daniels now, the beer, and he is negotiating with the CoF. The situation now is nothing compared to the situation back then. Yes, we have the Core logging every now in then in a fleet and smacking their enemies in a damn professional way, but look at their enemies. Corsairs, Outcasts and the Order. The houses hate those factions mostly, with exceptions. Why is the Core the bad guys, though? They attacked one IRG ship, technically having severely damaged it. Daniels is trying to fix the issue while still showing a very strong footing with making demands while still looking at a big alliance popping up again.

People should not force their wishes onto a faction lead by someone else. That's powergaming. Implosion is doing a great job currently. The only ones remaining silent is the Core's allies, the houses, which is rather an issue.

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[Divine]

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People should not force their wishes onto a faction lead by someone else. That's powergaming. ...

Hypocrite.

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[Omi]

People want the Core to be the bad guys because Discovery players like simple black-and-white storylines where they can hold hands with their friends and reenact the single player campaign. The issue of there being an increasingly small playerbase willing to put up with all the vitriol (both in-game and out of game, iRP and ooRP) that comes with playing the antagonist is something they like to wave away.

Keepers/K'Hara have had it for years, GRN has had it for years, and Core got the most recent dose of it back with the original FP11 drama. Until or unless it's made to be actually engaging to play the bad guys beyond just being a footnote in the grand coalition/alliance RP of "the other side", you'll see the same unwillingness to develop things from an antagonistic perspective as has always happened.

It benefits players looking for nothing but pews, because you're bound to get an assload of PvP when a smaller, better skilled side crashes into a ragtag bunch of 30 Nephs and Aquilons, but from a roleplay-oriented perspective there's absolutely nothing offered from playing the bad guy on Discovery.

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[Sombs]

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People should not force their wishes onto a faction lead by someone else. That's powergaming. ...

Hypocrite.

I'll celebrate the day you finally learn to not take things out of context to desperately prove your points.

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[Foxglove]

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People should not force their wishes onto a faction lead by someone else. That's powergaming. ...

Hypocrite.

Sure that isn't directed at me? (sun)

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[Petitioner]

But is that so?

Yes.

Lore-wise, the Core has a certain powerful reputation in the houses, that is spread via Propaganda (Commodity) and thus Core gets pilots from all over Sirius. That makes them, lore-wise, not the bad guys.

Simply being buddy-buddy with the Houses does not make you One Of The Good Guys™. Note that the House intelligence agencies (particularly LSF and BDM) are themselves very shady and unethical.

look at their enemies. Corsairs, Outcasts and the Order. The houses hate those factions mostly, with exceptions. Why is the Core the bad guys, though?

A player who understands the value of desperate actions in desperate times would not necessarily see either of the Hispanian factions as bad guys. Personally, the Corsairs are one of my favorite groups in the entire game - despite being the largest "unlawful" group in Sirius, they're still an entire nation of people desperately trying to make it in a harsh galaxy through the only way they know how, which just so happens to be piracy and smuggling. (The Outcasts and their attempts to make all of humanity dependent on their drug, of course, are in much more of a grey area, but it's still pretty much all relative.)

Point being, again, "Houses like you = Good Guy™; Houses hate you = Bad Guy™" isn't how it works or should work.

People should not force their wishes onto a faction lead by someone else. That's powergaming. Implosion is doing a great job currently. The only ones remaining silent is the Core's allies, the houses, which is rather an issue.

Note that first, I'm in Core| HC. Second, please read the following from the Core|'s official FAQ:

The Core works for itself mostly. Its goal is acquiring nomad technology. Why? Because money is power. and Power is money. Nomad technology means power. A LOT of power.

The ultimate goal of The Core is total domination of Sirius. However that's really far off and will probably never come to realization, so for now they'll undertake their smaller (even though still grand) goals.

It's safe to say that The Core are the 'Bad Guys' when compared to the Order. The war with the Order is being fought because the Order is true to its mission. They want the nomad threat eliminated. They don't want a bunch of power hungry maniacs running off with dangerous nomad artifacts. The bunch of power hungry maniacs DO want this. They don't like people getting in their way. So they will remove any obstacles by force if need be to reach their objective. The Core uses the extremeness of the Orders methodology as an excuse to justify what they do, and to make themselves look better than The Order in the public eye. So ironically, the good guys (Order) are perceived as bad guys and the bad guys (The Core) are perceived as good guys. Mmmmm, Lawful Evil RP tastes so good.

Sounds like unequivocal bad guys in a world where everything else is shades of grey, doesn't it? I sure think so. If you insist, however, on providing a positive and negative interpretation of everyone in the universe's actions, you can think of the Core as a civilizing force that wants to bring peace and stability to the Omicrons, and wants to help defend humanity from the Nomad threat. In fact, I'd go so far as to wager that the Core is actually quite popular among more conservative elements in the Houses, specifically because of this façade, and their (our) propensity for working with the Houses rather than (apparently) undermining them, as the Order does (read: the destruction of the Donau, the assassination of Lord Quigley, and other campaign events which would lead one to rightly view the Order as anarchic terrorists).

Note that nothing I'm saying here is intended to conflict with anything @Implosion has said or done; indeed, he's doing an awesome job as 1ic and we all love him dearly.

[Sombs]

I'm was talking about their known appearance ingame in house space, not about what they really are. The same about the intelligence services. I mean, every player knows APM is importing slaves from Pittsburgh. I brought them there when I joined APM back then myself. Every player knows Core is doing cruel stuff behind the scenes, dissecting nomads on Durban for APM tech and all that. People ooRP want Core to be the bad guys, but inRP, they have to act like they are the good guys, as they want to establish a lawful house in the Omicrons, where the enslaving, drugdealing Outcasts and the pirating and marauding Corsairs have no place. You mix it up with different viewing points. That's the difference. Just because people ooRP want things to happen, it doesn't mean it has to be enforced inRP as well. Especially not through administrative intervention, and that's were Daniels' order to not fire at Zoners is a brave move, as Core shows they don't let themselves be gamed into something because it would be cool if that was the case.

Like, I'm fully aware horrible monster the Core is. My main characters RP is based on that.

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[sindroms]

Something to point out, the line for the zoners is so wide-targetting because the Core quickly became the least of their worries. The whole situation is changing and shifting - so you are not necessarily needing to use this as a chance to blame Core - unless they want to be the baddie. I think you have enough Nomads and Infestees and Outcasts to worry about.

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