I think pirate factions have enough advantages on this site as it is. I run all lawful ships as pirating goes against my personal nature in RP or RL. Those that think this is a great idea are not looking at how this will hurt their food chain and need to consider this; I have 3 mining ships and plan on expanding to other territories. I have had pirates stop me demanding 3-5 mill when I was in Clydesdale Miner which holds only 550 units max and we sell at PoB for 2500-3000 cr per unit or 1500-2000 per unit to transports, so we let pirates destroy us or we attempt to escape.There is no real pay options due to the pirates looking at the word "ORE" and NOT paying attention to HOW MANY UNITS WE CAN CARRY and that ONLY certain ships and mining hard points will allow us "mining bonuses". It will not improve RP at all. In fact this will make it to where Miners will stop filling transports that are not their own due to the scanner inhibiting range and the increase likely hood of pirate encounters so you will see less and less ORE ships thus reducing pirates "PREY" options. Is THIS what you want??? A smart pirate does not go after the mining ships but waits for the 2000-5000 unit Transports so they will have 95% success rate in extorting their multi million cr demand and only foolish pirates and Newbies go after the Miners that fill transports. If this "scanner inhibit thing" was put into play I will probably stop filling all transports except mine and a small group of friends. I mine all ORE at 1000-1250 cr per unit for all freighters and transports and this has been 50-60% of all my mining of late. Do you Pirates really want this to change?
When you complain about pirates demanding more money from your small miner, you forget that they don't charge per your cargo hold. They charge per your ability to generate money over time.
And your mentality is what's wrong with this whole "miners should not be pirated. Go pirate ore shippers". NO. Miners should not be excluded from being prey just because they are smaller fish to catch. What next? Are we going to demand that no capital ships may fire on small pirates, because capital ships should go do something else? Come on.
Pirates are not here to harass you ooRPly. They are here to give some danger inRP. And if these changes are introduced, while miners would be most affected, same would go for pirates who caught something in mining field. Reinforcements could catch them just offguard as pirates caught miners.
Bull. I as a miner do not see paying pirates worth it so a lot of us allow ourselves to be destroyed or we escape. We just move on to other chars. My opinion is with current scan ranges it is 50/50 and there is plenty of RP between pirates and Miners. Dublin is a huge example and none of the old Miners pay. i think this will make it easier for pirates and that really is what you are looking for under the guise of" Adding danger RP" because we see you coming and escape thus making it difficult for you to catch us. There are not enough Lawfuls (police and military) to Pirates and I have played many different time zones and found this across each time zone in the areas outside of Liberty. I gave you a miners perspective and all you do is twist my intent with "miners should not be pirated. Go pirate ore shippers" WRONG. Go ahead and pirate mining ships. You get no creds from me nor many of the Miners but you will reduce the amount of haulers with ore due to Miners having to wait the 2 hr cool down time in order to return. You should think about those points before you suggest my statement is about something other than what I pointed out. And no, I would never suggest Cap ships not fire on small pirate ship and never miners be exempt from pirating. I hunt pirates in my gunboats, fighters and Carriers. I get pirated in my haulers and i do pay. I never pay in my mining ships. Not worth the product to cost ratio and most pirate ships can not carry huge loads of products due to their small cargo capacity and we know this so you get basically nothing while reducing the amount of Mining ships available to Haulers. Try thinking of cause and effect before you suggest this is personal on my part. Older Pirates in Bretonia already figured out it is counter productive to pirate mining ships. Reducing Scanner Ranges in Mining Zones only gives the stalker an advantage and really not change the RP factor. Just more destroyed Mining ships.
I read this thread why not just dump the mining bonus and then it will be even more dangerous and you will have to sit even longer to full a ship. But I really have to ask why it sooooo important to make sure miners and haulers have a better chance at being pirated. you haul things you stand a equal chance at seeing or not seeing a pirate you have direction choice. why make mining easy picking for pirates. it bad enough that the haulers get pirated. face it most the pirates suck at rp basically all you get is "give me money or I kill you " no witty banter nothing. and you want to encourage this horrible RP in the mine fields. Good Luck. but I have a feeling it will go the wrong way then you want it to
OriginalGamingGeneration is correct IMO. Snak3 is an ardent pirateer, and pushes for what he wants... that the opinion he has matters above all. I pirate a fair amount, and there is more skill in hunting or waiting to trap a hauler than pouncing on the easiest of prey, a mining ship. You know where it is,
Only a poor pirate goes baby seal clubbing almost defenseless mining ships. A good pirate hunts, tracks and ambushes its prey.
It is, as Original states: "Older Pirates in Bretonia already figured out it is counter productive to pirate mining ships."
Sooner or later the big juicy hauler is gonna arrive, and then you attack.
And there are those pirates who hussle through the RP patter because no matter the quality of RP a hauler engages in, they just want the kill. I had a pirate rattle off within 20secs all the rp patter and then destroyed my (empty) ship for the hell of it, not the RP. No discussion, ignored my 'Whats up?" and did the minimum he needed to warrant the kill "according to the rules".
And Snak3? Potential value does not matter. YOU may think that but YOU's be a fool. (But that is simply my opinion, and I am right!)
"In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views." Einstein
(01-12-2018, 07:48 PM)Durandal Wrote: What he's saying Denis, is that anyone inside the field has their scanner radius reduced. Anyone outside the field, however, will be able to see them. Pirates inside the field for example would be blind to incoming lawfuls as well.
That is silly. Just make the mining field sort of like Texas's field. Once you are in it, your visual range is at best 5km. And it is a visual restriction to all looking in. If a pirate wants to hunt a miner, why have the advantage? Let the pirate, and the pirate hunter have to enter the fields in order to find their prey.
I didnt read all the thread (yet) but I'd like to comment on a few things:
1. One of the problems why miners see no need to pay is that they can just switch to another of the 20 mining fields if a pirate blocks them in one system. That comes from the fact that:
-all miners are encouraged to make multiple chars all over anyway (because no faction can mine in more fields with max bonus and the second best is like 50% of the besT)
-if pirates block the same guy on other chars they'll probably get sanctioned for hassling.
That problem could partially be mitigated by not encouraging miners to make so many cheap chars everywhere. But it cant really be solved unless the piracy will always result in loss of large quantities of ore in piracy too. And that can only be solved if small no-cargo miners cant mine alone with POBS anymore.
To the argument that the base has to be emptied of ore to make profit too... yeah... that used to be somewhat true, and I used to say the same thing, when the server was still very full. Now that the server is empty, and so many route options still available, it's extremely easy to just ship the ore from the POB to an NPC base when you see there are no pirate around by checking the player list.
So currently, the small-miner+hauler mechanic is broken by the combination of POBs in mining fields and low player/pirate count. With a POB in a mining field, the maximum profit of a small miner like clydesdale is BROKEN, because it's not even necessary to have a second player online spending time online while the miner mines. So the already maximized small miner bonus intended for TEAMWORK is DOUBLED by NOT using teamwork instead of a base in a field. This needs to be fixed.
2. The "I'm a good person because I only mine and dont pirate" is silly, and wrong. Pirates are necessary, or you would have no enemies to shoot with that battleship you're saving your credits for. There HAS to be pirates and enemies, or there is no game. Pirates make much less credits than miners. And its much more difficult to pirate than to mine. And enemies are much more important for the game that people who just make credits so they can buy a large ship, and then have nothing to do with that ship because there are no enemies to use it against. If you want to be a "good" person, you can be a "robin hood" kind of a pirate. Pirate the rich, and give your "profits" (you'll notice they'r negligible compared to mining) to the poor. When I used to pirate, I stole from anyone above level 55, and gave to everyone below level 55 and told them "use that money to multiply it, then come back so I can rob you when you're rich". And I felt really really smug about myself.
3. A lot of pirates are twats. They act all tough, but when they're not complaining about a base, they're complaining about miners using battleships to protect themselves, or the fact that they were too stupid to pirate in the right place so they want rules changed so everyone has to suffer from piracy even if the pirate was too incompetent to prevent the trader from docking before dying. Piracy is MEANT to require skill. It's a challenge, not a right, to succeed in piracy.
Karlotta, Good points you made. There is only 1 thing you might want to know about Mining. It is not as rewarding credit wise as your post suggests. In the time I make 100 mil mining by filling transports and PoBs I have made 500 mil in Hauling Ore in my 5k transports to NPC bases. Hauling ore is what gave me the credits to have a 15 ship fleet of Carriers, Haulers, fighters and gunboats with multiple JD 4, cloak devises, Cloak disrupters and hyperspace Scanner in 3 months of joining Disco.That is why miners do both. Hauling ore and illegal items is where the credits are. I also would not be adverse to filling pirate ships with Ore as payment during pirating. Just FYI.
I do not doubt your honesty in what you are saying.
Let me just say that I have 50 ships where you have 15, and I dont find the number 50 impressing because there are people who dont speak english but who have 200 , and my intention while building those 50 was never even to make credits or build a fleet, but just to test how the game works now-a-days, compared to 2013 or 2008.
It doesnt matter if you made your money mining or hauling, to me, to game balance, or to any pirate.
It just matters that no one balancing these things seems to even remotely understand whats actually going on.
The 15 ships comment was not made to boast about it. It was made for the people having cr earning problems (I have run into ppl that had no clue as to ore routes). each one of the 15 ships have a purpose towards my goals and purposes. 2 ships house Scientific data and that's all they have. I like ship to ship combat in a RP environment and that is why the Ore routes and PoB I plan to build. A place to swap out weapons and equipment for Cap ships without having to sell them. As far as not pirating, it is a personal choice that I have not been able to separate in gaming from my personal morays not because of " I am a good person" but by the way I was raised in a mixed culture. Tried the bad guy choices in SWKOR 2 and it made me feel like shit even though it was only a game. Seems ridiculous but it is the way I am. I do not have a problem with others pirating nor do I look down on them for it. It is just not for me. Not even with the "Robin Hood" ideology behind it. As far as the "balancing" issue you referred to I have no clue what you are even talking about due to only finding this sight in Nov of 2017. So maybe you can do a "Disco Unbalanced" thread to explain what you are talking about and I will read it and watch for it in game as I go on playing.