I'll never need to argue because in the end snub pvpers are always better than cap players because caps require no brains to operate. That's why all the idiots go for them first.
(11-28-2019, 07:42 PM)Wesker Wrote: I'll never need to argue because in the end snub pvpers are always better than cap players because caps require no brains to operate. That's why all the idiots go for them first.
I'm an idiot and I fly snubs tho.
also Scatter is practically fine as it is against snubs
(11-28-2019, 06:51 PM)Wesker Wrote: Flaks and CMs exist. You should also try bringing fighters instead of relying solely on caps.
But heaven forbid that will ever happen. LOL
Flaks often refuse to function as intended and it is public knowledge that there is something wrong with CMs. Even if this was not true, it is obvious that the ammo capacity of CMs is limited, while bombers can easily resupply, as even escorts can't keep each bomber pinned (and out of experience, they fail to CD large, very noticeable capital ships, too, especially the higher end PvPers, some of whom appear to use their individual skill as a compensation for their lack of discipline).
Speaking of discipline, you replied to this as if it was a Flood thread, though it is in another forum, but you were, in part, right: heaven forbid that the capital fleet brings fighters. Then the same that happens to capital ships when exposed to bombers, would happen to those bombers. Many capital ship players think strategically instead of for the moment, so they don't plan only until the end of that specific battle, but they also know that, if the enemy is completely and convincingly wiped, pummeled and beaten, most of them will likely not come next time and there will be no battle. Aren't many won and lost battles better than only one, even if won?
As it currently is, one side is sure to end up "wiped", without the so addictive dramatically tense epicness of video game battles, and this makes battles in other video games more inviting than those in Discovery. Fighting without odds is boring because it is predictable, there is no reason to invest effort on either side. Winning against unfavourable odds, though, is one of the best things one can do in a video game. Or maybe sado-maso is what secretly turns the Wesker on?
Finally, as of your ad hominem about the so-called "idiots", don't smart people have more useful things to do than play video games? I mean, to be frank, it's not that either of us is a genius, and we're both often counted among the best PvPers in our respective ship classes by other people. I think that video games that want to be popular should balance themselves towards the majority of the target audience.
(11-28-2019, 07:42 PM)Wesker Wrote: I'll never need to argue because in the end snub pvpers are always better than cap players because caps require no brains to operate. That's why all the idiots go for them first.
spoken like a true elitist
have you considered having fun when playing the game?
i know i have fun when flying caps and bombers, and anyone else having fun is just coincidental
(11-28-2019, 06:51 PM)Wesker Wrote: Flaks and CMs exist. You should also try bringing fighters instead of relying solely on caps.
But heaven forbid that will ever happen. LOL
Flaks often refuse to function as intended and it is public knowledge that there is something wrong with CMs. Even if this was not true, it is obvious that the ammo capacity of CMs is limited, while bombers can easily resupply, as even escorts can't keep each bomber pinned (and out of experience, they fail to CD large, very noticeable capital ships, too, especially the higher end PvPers, some of whom appear to use their individual skill as a compensation for their lack of discipline).
Speaking of discipline, you replied to this as if it was a Flood thread, though it is in another forum, but you were, in part, right: heaven forbid that the capital fleet brings fighters. Then the same that happens to capital ships when exposed to bombers, would happen to those bombers. Many capital ship players think strategically instead of for the moment, so they don't plan only until the end of that specific battle, but they also know that, if the enemy is completely and convincingly wiped, pummeled and beaten, most of them will likely not come next time and there will be no battle. Aren't many won and lost battles better than only one, even if won?
As it currently is, one side is sure to end up "wiped", without the so addictive dramatically tense epicness of video game battles, and this makes battles in other video games more inviting than those in Discovery. Fighting without odds is boring because it is predictable, there is no reason to invest effort on either side. Winning against unfavourable odds, though, is one of the best things one can do in a video game. Or maybe sado-maso is what secretly turns the Wesker on?
Finally, as of your ad hominem about the so-called "idiots", don't smart people have more useful things to do than play video games? I mean, to be frank, it's not that either of us is a genius, and we're both often counted among the best PvPers in our respective ship classes by other people. I think that video games that want to be popular should balance themselves towards the majority of the target audience.
A space sim who's platform is built around individualism in fighters should not be subject to change because a group of people can't master that class as easily as others. Snubs have already been hammered past their vanilla prowess with alien weapons draining energy. The removal of destroyed ship parts to increase velocity which made the vanilla eagle the best ship in the vanilla game. We can go on about how tech cells were not a thing, how torpedoes used to be a thing that increased the skillgap even further and enabled me in my half-as-good self back in 2016 to hammer entire groups of enemies.
But we won't touch on that.
Flaks don't work all the time, yes. Bomber torpedoes don't work all the time too. SNACs work with droves of bombers. The way I see it both classes have their variables that narrows it down to who plays smarter in the end. Part of being smart involves bringing more shipclasses than BCs and Carriers and expecting TS/TZ to solve your issues. Hate to break it to you. (Not)
Quote:As it currently is, one side is sure to end up "wiped", without the so addictive dramatically tense epicness of video game battles, and this makes battles in other video games more inviting than those in Discovery
Yes, one side is sure to end up as such. Fighters are more skill based, you could pitch uneven numbers but the outcome could be heavily varied as the skillgap in snubs is infinitely greater than that of caps. If that were false, I wouldn't still be the "Ace" or whatever. The top cap player changes with the wind, and it's difficult to determine often times because one person's individual skill in caps can be completely undermined by numbers or weapon types. It's hard for me to 2v1 competent players and it doesn't always work. But weapon types ultimately have no bearing on my ability to wipe the floor with someone because I know how to fight all styles out of experience.
With caps on the other hand, the fight can be more asthetic to a viewer but the fight is more often than not determined before the fight even begins. A bunch of clowns jumping on BCs for example would just make all means of counter that purely involves caps void. Regardless of numbers.
You're right in your latter comment, I used to fly caps and enjoy them a lot. Then I realized it was just senseless. It pays off way more to have the experience in fighters which translates to way more forms of pvp than it is to know how to fire a mortar at 3k.
Saronsen Wrote:*Hears the truth undermining all the times he's flown his missile boat and boasted about it*
Bombers are way too nerfed, I'll name a few examples:
SNAC:
Trained years of your life to be able to SNAC a snub? F. u because SNACs aren't a snub insta kill no more.
On some bombers, I found out I can stand still at +/- 600m from a trade lane, and the SNAC will actually miss the trade lane...standing still.
It is so slow any ship, even battleships can dodge it -unless- you get into a suicidal close range, and if the target is NOT among the largest ships, it won't even do 100% damage, while you will get flaked, razored, shot like Swiss cheese, etc...if the SNAC even hits at all, apparently SNAC's have a tendency to go near the cursor and NOT where you aimed your cursor at depending on distance from target and SNAC placement.
The actual anti-shield and anti-pulse bombs:
A bomber should be able to drop bombs...makes sense, right? Except these bombs are actually entirely senseless.
They fit on gun slots, so forget having 4 EMP or Energy cannons if you want 2 bomb droppers, despite fitting on gun slots, you can't actually aim them like a gun, they fire in the direction the ship itself is pointed at, so no aiming, but instead they drain your energy to shreds, their speed is so useless that gunboats can easily dodge them even at close range...implying you can actually get your ship at a right angle to have a chance to fire these weapons without getting shot to bits.
That isn't bad enough for you, masochist? Try using them with e-kill, they'll actually travel at different angles.
Corona Beam Cannon:
Fits on a Torpedo slot just like a SNAC, but unlike the SNAC, which is useless already, this weapon can't even be aimed! Just like with the bombs, you need to point your entire ship at the target, which is probably moving too.
You'd figure a weapon's purpose is to actually damage it's target? What, are you crazy? This weapon will drain all your energy before you get any significant damage done. If you have the skill to dodge incoming shots while keeping your ship's beam cannon placement pointing at a moving target all at the same time to begin with.
Bomber EMP/Energy cannons:
These weapons are actually decent. These require a higher degree of skill to use against snubs but they do actually work as weapons instead of memes. They're ok, but have fun taking on a GB with these alone.
There's a catch tho: How effective these cannons are depends on the bomber you are flying.
Try taking on a fighter with a Roc using these cannons and you're going to have a bad time as the weapons are so far apart that a whole Eagle can fit between each of them, while a Mammoru is like a very accurate long range semi-automatic shotgun with these cannons.
Torpedoes:
Yeah.....if you e-kill, the torpedoes actually fly backwards.
If you thrust, they fly faster.
If you are stationary, they fly slower than their stated speed.
Bomber chain gun:
If you thought scatter guns were too OP for snubs, you never faced a bomber with a chain gun.
If you somehow manage to take a fighter's shields off, a chain gun will tear it to shreds before you burn half your ammo, minimal aiming skill required. But it burns through ammo so fast it's useless outside 1v1 scenarios. Transports, which are supposed to be a bomber's breakfast can shake the boolets off easily with an armor upgrade, who thought these are a good idea?
Speaking of scatter guns:
150 range what the heck? By the time you get in range to hit a snub, a decent pilot is already behind you taking half your hull off with a well placed nuke while a cap can just blast you in a matter of seconds for getting that close.
Suggestions:
SNAC: Restore it to 4.85 OR 4.86 version or delete it entirely as it's a sad pathetic-ism right now.
Corona Beam Cannon: Lot's of work before this becomes anything other than a meme: Make it's graphic and sound effects actually look respectable instead of a beam of pure white energy with a diameter half the size of your ship, but only a scratch of hull damage. Boost it's hull damage at least twice it is right now, consider putting it on a CD slot instead of Torpedo slot. Or just remove it.
Bombs: At the very least, make them aim-able, and if not, place them in the torpedo slots instead of cannon slots.
Torpedoes: Make them travel at the same direction you aim at, at the same speed regardless of ship maneuvers, since they use expensive ammo, might as-well boost their tracking ability or projectile speed.
Bomber chain gun: eh, keep it as it is or just remove it.
Scatter guns: Nerf their damage at like 600 hull dmg, that way they no longer shred snubs, boost their range to like 500, keep all other stats the same and they should be actually respectable.
I appreciate all of the imput here, now could we disscuss the actual theme of the thread : SCATTERGUNS!!!!!!!!!!!
Opinions and suggestions on this particular weapon.
Are they useless in players opinion or not??
And if the majority agrees they are, can we work together to rebalance them??
Write your possible stats people.
You know, stuff like that, not caps, whores, flaks, Weker and ect etc..
P.S. Idea. Make a Thread called " Wesker - nerf, delete or rebalance ". Since i noticed he is an interesting subject.