Developed by Blood Dragons on the basis of Dragon, Blood Dragon is the best heavy fighter class ship availabe in Sirius. Maneuverability, improved power supply and heavy armor make Blood Dragon a deadly weapon in the hands of a skilled pilot. However, Dragons conceal the design of this ship even from their pirate brethren, so the only place where it's built is Kyoto base.
This is not "someone said", this is the infocard :rtfm:
I really cannot see a clearer reference to them not giving it to GCs. There are no other "pirate brethren" of BDs than GCs, since as was just told the alliance with outcasts is vague.
Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.
Hideyoshi's guard made a deal with the GC ages ago. Some griffin's in exchange for some Cats. We don't use the griffins much, i think there's about one, but their still allowed to fly the bombers.
"But your BD IFF'd!" Yus we are. But the BD's are also allied to the Outcasts which we are not. We're forging our own diplomacy, so to say.
' Wrote:I really cannot see a clearer reference to them not giving it to GCs. There are no other "pirate brethren" of BDs than GCs, since as was just told the alliance with outcasts is vague.
I don't see anywhere in that infocard where it says "Not even the Golden Chrysanthemums are allowed to use it."
The infocard clearly shows the Dragons do not release the DESIGN. The Dragons' "pirate brethren" are not allowed to build the ship, it however does not say anything against buying one, or trading stuff to the Dragons get one.
' Wrote:I don't see anywhere in that infocard where it says "Not even the Golden Chrysanthemums are allowed to use it."
The infocard clearly shows the Dragons do not release the DESIGN. The Dragons' "pirate brethren" are not allowed to build the ship, it however does not say anything against buying one, or trading stuff to the Dragons get one.
As for the cheese thing... that works.
Selling a ship to a faction is the same as selling them the design. It's called reverse engineering, and it is not some sci-fi concept, it has been use since the dawn of mankind. Someone has something you want, get one, and get someone with technical skills and you can make your own.
I am actually trying to stay out of this one....and now the expected but....I will say....
I have gone to some trouble to RP Ze'ev getting a spatial, just so that I have something to fire a SN off of, even though Ze'ev and a few others in AFA are ex-KNF, we will not be using the Cat, the Praetorian, or the Tailidin.
Part of this whole argument is about the fact that the Red Cat bomber is the best VHF in the game, and the BD HF is the other best VHF in the game.
The other part is holding everyone to the same standard. TBH Rp'ed a deal with CR for the Tigershark LF, because for much the same reasons as the GC dont use the ROC, our LF's are virtual unusable, and We received a nice stiff sanction, and were attacked by people to boot for it. I dont see why it should be any different.
Why would you allow your members to keep Red Catamarans?
I mean, if you really are more RP oriented, you should make them switch to a real GC ship.
Just to be completely honest here, I don't want to disrespect anyone.
There are many factions that aren't getting any shipline.
GC are getting it's bomber it seems, and now they are allowed to keep Cats?
Well why are you getting your own shipline at all then? I don't think that's fair at all.
I'm really concerned about what you said.
I guess you will keep BD HF's too even if you get your own HF?
How is that supporting GC RP?
As Zapp said, you can do whatever you want, that's not the point.
It's not about what you -can- do, it's what you -should- do.
And flying allied ships isn't going to bring you a fearsome reputation.
What would you say if TBH would just all switch to Vipers and Taiidan bombers?
They can technically do it, but should they? Of course not.
I was referring to a vanilla LWB, which, if I'm not mistaken, fly BW line.
Though I might be wrong, if so, I apologize.
EDIT :
Because it was mentioned before in a bad manner by some, I'll just add it.
One GC suicided in mass fight we had now in Tau-44, in front of us.
It took us 10 mins to down him and then he crashed the planet.
In a guard system.
I hope he can RP his pod being found there, somehow.:)
Lucendez Wrote:
It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.
I was referring to a vanilla LWB, which, if I'm not mistaken, fly BW line.
Though I might be wrong, if so, I apologize.
I don't want to be rude, but you are mistaken. It has always been the RP of the LWB, both in vanilla and disco, to fly Civilian ships.
Now, then, I have made my points about the Red Cat and the Blood Dragon HF. I'll wait for Kurraine to reply before saying anything else.
[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:49:19 AM] Elgatodiablo: You know its nice that you have all that proof and all, Bacon... but I just don't believe you.
' Wrote:Selling a ship to a faction is the same as selling them the design. It's called reverse engineering, and it is not some sci-fi concept, it has been use since the dawn of mankind. Someone has something you want, get one, and get someone with technical skills and you can make your own.
I'm done.
That's why we invented Copyright Protection...but I do see your point. I do think that an agreement could be made though.
' Wrote:I'm sure you heard of this : "No one can make you see something that you don't want to see"
I have indeed heard of that, and no, I wouldn't want to see the infocard saying that the BD HF is restricted. But it simply does not. It's physically impossible to see it, it doesn't exist. Nothing to do with whether I want to see it or not.
About the Corsair and CR ships...don't really know what to make of that...I think a more accurate comparison would be a Corsair using Order tech.
The whole reason that TBH sticks to the Titan, Praetorian and now the Arwing (which I never see anymore) is because we want to be authentic. It also sets a great example to the new guys both inside and outside the faction. Some OC complain about praetorian spamming, but it could have easily been Taiidans. At least when people fight Corsairs, it actually feels that they are fighting Corsairs rather than a bunch of mercenaries flying Vipers, Eagles and whatever else. The only exception is Ivan Voronov, whos RP is well known as a defector from the SCRA. I also made him buy a Titan before I stepped down.
A while ago now, Billythekidd, if any of you remember him, asked if he could have an Eagle because he couldnt fly a Titan properly and he didnt want to lose. I denied that and explained to him as best as I could why he shouldnt use it.
Attitudes like this make me want to buy that Eagle for myself. I'd certainly kill a lot more in it than I do my Titan.
I mean, its pretty obvious you wont get trounced if you see Outcasts and Corsairs fighting and winning more or less an even number of matches each side despite the stat difference in their primary fighters. If you use better tech, you sacrifice in other areas, without even knowing.
In fact, only a few times have I found that ship type decides a battle, when talking the same class of ship. And thats only against an exactly equally skilled opponent.
Quote:I don't see anywhere in that infocard where it says "Not even the Golden Chrysanthemums are allowed to use it."
That is trying to find loopholes..
Like, for example, where in the Server rules does it say the distance which constitutes a retreat?
Where does it say you cant continually use a jump hole to avoid piracy?
But there are already set precedents for each, both of which the majority of this community agrees with.
More importantly, the whole reason why the BD and Red Cat are probably going to get a nerf next version is because more people use it than they were meant too. The BD used to be the best VHF, as the infocard says, until you saw all manner of people in it. Hackers, Rogues, Mercs, Outcasts, Hessians; the list goes on. -IF- people had adhered to the infocard and it had remained in the hands of ONLY the Blood Dragons, then I have little doubt that it would be pretty awesome still, rather than just very good.
At the end of the day, I can interpret every infocard in a thousand ways, no matter how clear it is. I can see shadows where there arent any and hidden meaning that doesnt exist. We all can. The trick is, to try to see the obvious rather than the hidden, as the obvious will usually be the real meaning.
All this feedback taken into account, but I doubt much will change about the situation. I mean, those complaining probably want to feel like they are actually fighting GC when they engage a GC. But it really feels like fighting a BD now.
Now, then, Kurraine, I've waited another two days for a reply from you again, since even after you posted there is still a collection of people who believe you are wrong to have Blood Dragon ships in unrestricted use. No one has said to stop using them completely, but there has to be a restriction on them. No military organization just hands out their technology, even if they are good friends with someone, and that technology has to be safeguarded by the faction on the receiving end. If you look at the other factions on this server who share ships, none of them are unrestricted. Some examples:
LR - Outcasts (Currently) - Veteran and above get ONE Outcast ship.
Bretonia - Liberty - No ship sharing present
LWB - 2nd Highest Rank gets access to Red Hessian Ships
Mollies - Outcast - Almost no ship sharing outside the Destroyers
Corsairs - Order - Long history of them sharing technology, and that is the only base for their alliance, and absolutely no ship sharing
Looking at this, the LWB and LR are pirate factions, and the LWB and Red Hessians are far closer than the GC and BD, and the Outcasts, Mollies, and Rogues are very close friends (At least this mod version), yet there is almost no ship sharing between them. Now, then, there are almost 10 people in this thread saying that letting absolutely everyone in your faction use BD ships is not good form, and you are acting more like BD's than GC.
All we are really asking is that you restrict them, not let everyone and their aunt use them. That IS bad form, and it seems from both your responses (In the other thread as well) that you are not even looking at it from a Roleplay standpoint, but rather from an aesthetic and PvP point of view.
Are you going to do anything, or are you going to ignore people that have spent good time and energy to try and help you improve your faction and want to have some fun with you?
[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:49:19 AM] Elgatodiablo: You know its nice that you have all that proof and all, Bacon... but I just don't believe you.