Containing as it does the entry point into the server and therefore being a kind of psychological "home" to every player on the server, Liberty forms the hub of the server. The lawful liberty factions come under a degree of scrutiny that is pretty disproportionate - they get blamed for everything that goes wrong. They can never win: if a unlawful gets solidly ganked, they are asked to restrain the ships doing it; if the unlawfuls run riot, they get blamed for not establishing their presence.
I think the spirit in which this was done is genuine, and a pretty worthy attempt to redress some of the inconsiderate behaviour of many people on the server. I just don't know how possible it is to enforce this. Nor do I think we should just allow the lawful factions in Liberty alone to deal with this. Until such time as NY doesn't form the means by which people access the game or occasionally, return to to generate some kind of publicity, get some action or seek attention, then NY will be a pretty impossible system in which the Liberty laawfuls will be able to play without coming under a barrage of undeserved criticism.
The Liberty lawfuls are the law in Liberty; they are expected to enforce law and order in their territory.
Personally, I think avoiding NY does one's sanity wonders; and I try to keep it off limits as much as possible.
Calling the actions of a sapce ship game faction "oppressive" is a pretty poor understanding of what oppression is, and is kind of insulting to people who actually do have to experience and endure real oppression in the real world.
Kudos to you kingvaliant for trying to make this game fair for everyone in the systems you have chosen to establish yourself in. It seems like a lot of hard work and I hope you won't take this as negativity but I wonder if you have taken on something that might give you a lot of headaches. I hope it makes this game more fun for everyone, faction and non faction alike.
' Wrote:Calling the actions of a sapce ship game faction "oppressive" is a pretty poor understanding of what oppression is, and is kind of insulting to people who actually do have to experience and endure real oppression in the real world.
:roll eyes: Within the context of the game, it is oppressive. You have to try to remember that it is a computer game we are talking about and keep it in that context, OK?
The effort is obviously indie bashing, it starts by deriding indines in the first sentence, and it ignores the bulk of "overkill", which is done by factions who almost always choose to fight only when they have enough forces to "overkill" the indies they attack.
If this was a balanced attempt to halt "overkill", it would address all forms of it instead of concentrating on indies in cap ships as it does.
' Wrote:Um, if you try to think logically about your three points, if say liberty had the ability to eliminate it's enemies it would have already done so, and there would be no LR disrupting trade lane in liberty space.
Your points ignore the fact that the liberty fleets can't be everywhere at once, therefore you make no sense.
My points are quite valid. Do I need to post the screenies of the LR engaging a single indy who is not in a cap ship with 5 against 1 again?
It's the factions that do this overkill pvp whoring constantly that drives indies into cap ships.
Also it's interesting that factions call my points antifaction propaganda when this whole topic was obviously started just to bash indies, that's why it starts with a dig against indies as the very first line.
What did I say last time? If ANY Rogue does something bad, hand it to me and I'll deal with them. I'm more directly responsible for LR-, but Rose Crenshaw leads the Liberty Rogues, with only Sylpheed having veto power or direct command if he so chooses. Indy or not, if they're Rogue they answer to me. What that entails depends on the offense, not if they have three letters in front of their name.
Hand me the screeny again (didn't get a chance to jot the names down last time) and tell me who shot first. I'll get testimonies from the appropriate players and figure out who to hang.
And to somewhat recover Akuma's related tangent into the topic, I'm assuming that this applies fully to factions too? I don't see why it wouldn't, they're all Liberty Navy/LSF/LPI. I'll get on skype sometime tonight and draft up a similar thing for Liberty unlawfuls.
' Wrote:And to somewhat recover Akuma's related tangent into the topic, I'm assuming that this applies fully to factions too? I don't see why it wouldn't, they're all Liberty Navy/LSF/LPI. I'll get on skype sometime tonight and draft up a similar thing for Liberty unlawfuls.
The difference is that it's targeting only the scenario where a ship is outclassed in size as being overkill, a method far more likely to be used by an indy and far more likely to occur by happenstance, and ignores the more common overkill where it's done with an overwhelming number of ships against a single opponent, as factions are prone to do.
Why does KV think it's bad for a single indy in a cruiser to kill a single fighter or bomber, but thinks it's OK for 5 ships to attack a single fighter or bomber?
In both cases it's overkill, in both cases the fight is completely lopsided with only one side having a chance to win.
Any reference to faction members and independent characters in this is unnecessary. Fair play can be sought by everyone.
As a high ranked member in two different factions I'll try and avoid unnecessary piling from my forces against someone. Not all the time I'll be able to accomplish it, as a lot of fights are dynamic with people coming in and out of it over time. Not all times the people comprising the opposing force will agree with me as to what is fair and what isn't. Not all the times I'll be willing to do so, as the underlying situation might convince me to ignore that aspect (if the opposing force is comprised of people acting like **** or that I perceive aren't ready to commit to the same compromise towards my pilots).
Ever since I've made it Admiral of the RM, I've sat and watched more fights than those in which I actually participated in. Not only that, I've taken pilots out of fights in which we had an "unnecessary" advantage.
I think you should concentrate on the people that will listen to you, king. Both the people that answer to you directly (the pilots that belong to your faction), and the people that decide to listen to you (independents characters that are willing to work with your faction). Trying and regulating anyone apart from those people will only be a royal pain for you.
' Wrote:As we all know, Indies can be problematic.
This was noted before and will be again.
' Wrote:Also it's interesting that factions call my points antifaction propaganda when this whole topic was obviously started just to bash indies, that's why it starts with a dig against indies as the very first line.
The above quote, above the quote is what Akumabito is referring to.
' Wrote:Tell me of one military, navy, airforce or whatever that:
A) Would ALLOW independent, unregistered craft/soldiers/vehicles/ships within their territory.
B) Would allow them to become more powerful than the lawful, official presence.
C) Wouldn't ban/exile/dissolve a group that's powerful enough to overthrow them and take over.
And thusly, Akuma, your point is invalid.
Welcome to Discovery.:)
RL is that (*points in direction*) way.
' Wrote:Any reference to faction members and independent characters in this is unnecessary. Fair play can be sought by everyone.
As we all know, Indies can be problematic. OORP indies are less common nowadays however. BUT a lot of them, still plainly Overkill other players with their caps (ex: BS vs. Lone fighter).
Now, the point, I want all those Over killing behavior to be sent to me in private. Any player (lawful) using a more than acceptable/tolerable force to exterminate an opponent will be dealt with accordingly (ban, ultimatum, KOS, fine, simple peaceful talk, etc). Although, some conditions applies.
A player shall be reported to me for Overkilling if:
-the player engage a victim fighter with a capital ship (Cruiser and higher only)
-the player engage a victim bomber with a capital ship (BattleCruisers and higher only)
-(linked with the two precedent options) the player engage a pirate that was not even bothering him.
A player shall not be reported to me for overkilling if:
-the victim tried to engage the capital ship and got killed
-the victim was part of a raiding party, whatever its size
-the victim decided to fight enemies near the player (7.5k and less)
Overkilling kills everyone's fun.
It kills the victim fun, since he didn't has a good and fair fight.
It kills the faction players fun, since they get all the trash for it.
The only one who gets the fun out of it is the violator itself
Overkillers will only be dealt with after a second report. Judgement will vary depending on the case.
For factionnized players overkilling, please contact their faction leaders privately.
Players writing more than 2 reports per week will be ignored.
PS: Proof will be needed, Reports without any visual proof will be ignored
I'm not dealing with a bunch of unoffiliated Capwhores. You're wasting your time, maybe I'm reading this wrong but this knda sounds like some vigilante force meant to do the job the admins do....but without the admin powers. If you plan to put these guys on some sort of KOS for capwhoring I think you're kinda encouraging their ways. You might just be better off letting the admins handle it.
Ok, so Apache got told off by someone for having too many missile turrets. Since when was 3 too many?
If someone does not know how to deal with missiles that is their lack of skill or knowledge.
I really do not see how 3 missiles are an overkill. It's a choice on weapon selection which should be the pilots choice, not the choice of someone who lacks the knowledge. Last I checked a lot of people wanted to avoid everyone being forced to fly the same ships with the same weapons. (Refer to the OORP ship thread)
How about when 4 or 5 pirates attack a single lawful?
I dont notice anything like that on this list.
Or was the entire intent of this something to aid unlawfuls instead of everyone equally?
-(linked with the two precedent options) the player engage a pirate that was not even bothering him.
' Wrote:...
Or is this thread just another whining of pirates since I notice that this seems to be only for protecting pirates and not everyone. How about when 4 or 5 pirates attack a single lawful, you going to add that to your little list?