Lawfuls using/knowing about unlawful jump holes

[Tenacity]

I think these types of threads should stop.
It's not about OORP.
it's not about who can know what. There are times and places for everything.
There are times when good roleplay will involve cops knowing where buffalo is.
There are times when unlawfuls can use Jumpgates.
There are times when lawfuls will want to use Jumpholes.

There is no straight, direct line of "lawfuls cant use jumpholes, and unlawfuls cant use jumpgates."
To say so is to miss the point of what roleplay is. Its EXACTLY the same arguement as whether a FL player should
join up to a faction or not. It's a pointless debate, and one not grounded in reality, nor in "fun" roleplay.

The answer is both yes and no, depending on the situation.

the problem is that if you make any exceptions to something, players will flock to it trying to use that exception as justification for powerplaying in game. It'll turn into "Waaah, he did it so why cant I?" whenever an issue comes up.

The game engine does not support proper RP, it's up to the players to restrict themselves in order to make things better for EVERYONE here, not just themselves or their faction. People have a bad habit of lying, cheating, or exploiting to their own advantage, so we end up having to use laid down rules to regulate this kind of thing.

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[Srkad]

Jumpholes are for unlawful, jumpgates are for lawful. As far as im concerned lawful should not even go through ANY jumpholes.


If you read the descriptions it says they are unstable and not to go in them. The only people who would be crazy enough to do it would be pirates, lawfuls would listen to the propaganda they are fed by big corporations.

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[ProwlerPC]

Well if it helps, a Tip in BH bases says that "There is one major oath all BHG members must swear to. To never tell the authorities the location of the Jumpholes. To break theis oath is to be automatically expelled from the guild and will most likely end up in an accident." or something like that. The SS was taken and put in the S/D faction description and request.
Maybe this helps.

Edit: Here is a quick link (And advertisement ;))
http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=23429

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[chovynz]

the problem is that if you make any exceptions to something, players will flock to it trying to use that exception as justification for powerplaying in game. It'll turn into "Waaah, he did it so why cant I?" whenever an issue comes up.

The game engine does not support proper RP, it's up to the players to restrict themselves in order to make things better for EVERYONE here, not just themselves or their faction. People have a bad habit of lying, cheating, or exploiting to their own advantage, so we end up having to use laid down rules to regulate this kind of thing.

Jumpholes are for unlawful, jumpgates are for lawful. As far as im concerned lawful should not even go through ANY jumpholes.
If you read the descriptions it says they are unstable and not to go in them. The only people who would be crazy enough to do it would be pirates, lawfuls would listen to the propaganda they are fed by big corporations.

You're not getting the point Tenacity, and Noobius.
There are FAR fewer JUMPGATES than there are JUMPHOLES.
If you encourage the split-thinking of JH = unlawfuls, Vs JG = Lawfuls, then you straight away make
many lawful traders unable to use JHs. Having this split-thinking would instantly kill the entire economy
of the border worlds, and many many trading factions, not to mention the Kusarian unlawful/lawful
groups that are in both or either depending on your side.

Your thinking is too small. Upgrade to the bigger picture please.
(That's not an insult, it's pointing out that while on the surface, it looks like a good idea for Liberty,
it doesnt work for Edge or Border Worlds territory. What happens to Order? they are lawful,
but classified as terrorists and criminals with the Liberty Gov. Under this thinking, they cannot
use the JH, instantly freezing them in their home world. These are just examples. I'm sure there are many more.)

As you can tell, I am totally against encouraging this kind of thinking (JH for unlawfuls, and JG for lawfuls),
and would like these types of threads to not exist. It is small minded thinking and doesnt work for what we are doing on this server.

Edit: Hahah im in the LR who do exactly that: we stay away from using JG as we dont have the codes etc.
I play by Del's rules because Im in his faction, but I still feel very strongly that we shouldnt make
it DEFINITE across all of Sirius that JH = unlawfuls and JG = lawfuls. Its just a plain bad Idea and misleading
in the extreme to say blanket things like that.

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Seek fun and you shall find it. Seek stuff to Q_Q about and you'll find that, too. I choose to have fun.

[ProwlerPC]

Yeah given that the game uses JH's to access the added systems I'd ammend my post to I won't fret if I see a Lawful using a JH but neither will I tell any lawful where the JH's are as per BHG code.
But some common sense (:blink:) on which JH's Lawfuls use should be excercised.

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[chovynz]

Sorry Ten, I think I overreacted. I'll take a break from the forums for awhile and think how I can put what Im trying to say in a better form.

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Seek fun and you shall find it. Seek stuff to Q_Q about and you'll find that, too. I choose to have fun.

[Laowai]

Voted No


everyone should be able to use them...

It makes perfect sense that lawfuls know where they are - whether they would choose to use them is another matter - who would actually heed Agiera's warning? some might, some might not.


Its possible though that lawfuls wouldnt know the location of ALL jumpholes, ones outside their sphere of influence for example.

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http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/3289/...047770.png

[Muleo]

Laowai, NPC rumours, especially Corsair ones, boast that they're so succesful in piracy because they can escape using jumpholes that lawfuls don't know how to use.

So yes, it's OORP for lawfuls to use some jumpholes -however- for playability sake, lawfuls should use any jumphole unlawfuls escape through etc.

[Benford Calvert]

I agree with Laowai . The police/navy would stumble across the JH when pursing criminals. Tenacity it makes perfect sense for the Police to cut off people (not in cap ships though) by sending people round to the other end. RL life example is if a bad guy in a car drives in to a tunnel if the resources are available they would put a road block at the Other end of the tunnel. I have actually found jump holes that I never new about in my BPA char. I agree though police/ navy shouldn't use Jump holes except in extreme circumstances. Also traders are either indis or in a company and as such indis would want to cut cost and take the quickest route no matter what the danger is and would go thorough a JH instead of the 50k away JG. Some corporations would also have to use jump holes as there is no JG to the destination system. Also some major military actions might go through a Jump hole but his would be the, Genius admiral with small task force going through a jump gate to prevail and defeat the larger force by a miracle surprise attack out flanking the enemy.

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Superintendent Benford Calvert (OBE)
Captain James Calvert of the Darrowby
Captain Libertas of the Hearts.Delight

[cmfalconer]

One huge question:

How would any lawful get to freeport 9? or freeport 11? or Falkland? or freeport 5? Or a myriad of other stations only accessable by jumphole? Are these lawful stations left to rot?

And don't go telling me Zoners or IMG are immune to this little argument. You know EXACTLY what we'd have if that snippet ever got actually put into the rules.

I honestly think you're asking for something that cannot be done given the current game mechanics AND current server rules. And this will never get into the server rules. Since it won't get into the rules, it's not going to be policed, which means it's not going to happen.

If this were the happy little community of 30-50 players it used to be, perhaps self-policing would work...but we've got 5000(?) characters in the DBase. Sorry son, but you'll have to find another way to get away from the big-bad police.

$.02

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